Snape Survey, Snapeity, Dumbledore's sacrifice.

[juli17ptf]

No: HPFGUIDX 149163

<snip>
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Yes, pleading does not necessarily equal shock, but since I am very
> willing to entertain the idea that Snape may not be an innocent
> party, a dutiful soldier who takes DD out on his orders, but instead
> a self-serving individual who finally realised that it makes no
> sense to stick to DD side, because DD is well...seems to loose at
> the moment,
> then IMO pleading may very well be BECAUSE the person is shocked> 
from the most ultimate betrayal of his trust.
> 

Julie:
We're back to reallystupid!Dumbledore, who's known Snape for most of
Snape's life, sixteen years of that as colleagues, and several years 
closely aligned in a spy operation, yet misjudged him so badly that 
he went from full and absolute trust to blindsided shock in a matter 
of seconds. I just don't buy that version of Dumbledore. Yes, he 
makes mistakes, but he's smarter than that. 

Also, while Legilimency might be a possible way Dumbledore came to 
his sudden realization of Snape's betrayal *before* Snape actually 
did anything, it presents several problems.

1. If Dumbledore used legilimency to ferret out Snape's true 
feelings/intentions, why didn't our narrator, Harry, note some 
reflection of this in Snape's expression? Why did it take so long for 
Snape to look at Dumbledore with hatred and digust if he came onto 
the scene "broadcasting" his feelings and intent strongly enough for 
Dumbledore to read them?

2. Why didn't Dumbledore use legilimency earlier--far earlier--to 
learn that Snape was vacillating on the loyalty issue--or at least so 
he could recognize that Snape's commitment wasn't in the "I can trust 
him *absolutely*" category, but more in the "I hope I'm right about 
him, but I'd better watch my back" category? 

3. Why do many ESE!/OFH!Snape advocates reject the notion of 
legilimency between Dumbledore and Snape on the Tower while they're 
INTENTLY STARING at each other, but are willing to accept legilimency 
when they aren't even *looking* at each other if it will support the 
theory that Dumbledore's pleading "Severus..." was an indication of 
his shock at Snape's betrayal? (As we have read that legilimency 
requires eye contact.) It seems the latter would be much more of 
a "convoluted twists and turns" flimsy-canon type of support than the 
former ;-)

I just added that third one to point out that ESE and OFH require 
their own questionable leaps of logic, not because anyone has stated 
it in such bald terms!

Julie