Remus Lupin: Good man doing nothing (long!)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 149291

> Jen D.:
> Jen here, finally,
> You've done a fine job of fence-sitting but you seem to swing, 
> unconciously maybe, towards a Pippinesque scenario. A good man 
> who does nothing is not a good man.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
In the end, no he's not.  I have hopes that Lupin will finally get 
some initiative and actually *do* something, but if he doesn't then 
I do lean towards him being not that great of character. 

> >>Julie:
> I too have felt that Lupin is not what I want him to be, and what 
> I think he *could* be if he would just shake himself out of his    
> apathy. We've discussed the mental states of various characters,   
> and Lupin seems to me a man perptually in the throes of           
> depression...
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
He does, doesn't he?  And the interesting thing is, that he's been 
in this depression for *years*.  Since boyhood really.  Because the 
boy in the pensieve was just as helpless, just as willing to put up 
with rather atrocious behavior (not just the attack on Snape, but 
the total lack of care towards his secret) as the man in PoA was 
willing to let his "best friend's" son get killed by a madman.

> >>Julie:
> It's easier for him to wallow in self-pity and self-hatred, rather 
> than push himself into action. (I think Lupin and Snape are very   
> much alike in their capacity for self-hatred, they 
> simply express it differently, Snape outwardly on others and Lupin 
> inwardly on himself.)
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Yes!  I totally agree.  I think there's a reason Lupin and Snape 
mirror each other in the pensieve scene.  But the thing is, Snape 
uses his self-hatred as fuel to keep himself going, to *do* 
something. While Lupin's self-hatred paralyzes him.  We know Snape 
dislikes Lupin for his weakness.  Lupin may well dislike Snape for 
his... shamelessness, maybe?  Perhaps these two wounded men could 
help each other out (or die trying <g>).

> >>Christina:
> Woohoo!  Excellent timing, Betsy, as our favorite lycanthrope will 
> be celebrating his birthday in just a few days :)

Betsy Hp:
Hee!  I did not know that.  Happy birthday, Lupin!

> >>Betsy HP:
> > So, nothing substantial until he arrives on the scene in PoA.    
> > And when we meet him he's sleeping.  Not merely napping, he is  
> > sleeping *hard*.

> >>Christina:
> I think it would be interesting to consider that Lupin might have 
> been awake the entire time.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
It is an interesting thought.  And it could well be possible.  It's 
also possible that Lupin was sick from a recent change or a hard 
travel.  However, Lupin is still in a position of avoiding 
involvement, whether willfully (pretending to be asleep) or 
otherwise.  There's certainly a symbolic element here that I think 
is meant to be there. JKR could have easily had Lupin arrive on the 
scene when the dementor does as the new teacher coming from another 
compartment, for example.

> >>Christina:
> <snip>
> I hate that Lupin didn't have the guts to get up and do something, 
> but seriously - nobody else did either.  The scene is filled with 
> other students that look on and laugh, and nobody (save Lily) does 
> a single thing.  Again, it's still wrong, but I think it shows an 
> unsavory (but all too common) human behavior.

Betsy Hp:
It is common, but it's not good. (Ick, mobs.)  I actually give Lupin 
a greater responsibility than the laughing crowd.  Not just because 
as a Prefect he *does* have a greater responsibility, but because he 
isn't laughing.  Unlike the crowd, Lupin realizes that what's going 
on is *wrong* and yet he still takes no action.  He waits for, and 
possibly depends upon, Lily to come to the rescue.  And until Lily 
*does* something, evil triumphs.  

An interesting question is, how *long* does evil triumph?  How long 
do James and Sirius get to prank whoever they want, whenever they 
want? Until Sirius goes too far?  Until James finally decides to 
listen to Lily?  And could Lupin's willingness to let James and 
Sirius get away with what he lets them get away with be what leads 
them to think Lupin might be the traitor?

> >>Christina:
> Lupin *can't* send Harry letters though, because he's been with the
> werewolves.  For all of his passivity in the past, this is        
> completely explainable.

Betsy Hp:
Jen D. raised the same point, and I'm not saying it would have been 
*easy*.  There is a valid reason for Lupin to not get in touch 
(which I'm sure he clings to).  But Tonks (an Auror who should know 
something about undercover work) thinks it's possible for Lupin to 
get a letter out.  Sirius would have managed it, as he did while on 
the run.  If Lupin had wanted to, a quick note could have been 
managed.  Even if it was sent just *before* he joined the werewolves.

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > But get the boys out into the sunlight and our Lupin of past    
> > books is quite apparent.

> >>Nora:
> Being as it's a flashback to the past, not exactly shocking, is it?

Betsy Hp:
That it shows the weakness of PoA and GoF were the standard and the 
strength of OotP was the anomaly, I was a bit shocked, actually.  
Because I do like Lupin, so I hated to see that his natural state 
was one of weakness.  I had hoped that the willingness to let Harry 
die rather than take action was some sort of strange phenomenon 
instead of business as usual.

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > <snip>
> > And now suddenly it's like he's joined a cult.  Must not        
> > question Dumbledore, must not dislike Snape.

> >>Nora:
> One word: Overcompensation.
> Lupin feels guilty at not having trusted Dumbledore, not having
> shared, and thus being responsible for the chain of events which   
> PoA set off.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I can see that.  (And can I just say that I thought about you, Nora, 
while writing that, "weirdly too trusting of Dumbledore" bit? <g>)  
I also wonder if Lupin didn't depend on Dumbledore to do his action 
for him.  Harry will be safe because Dumbledore is there, etc.  Sort 
of like how he let Lily do his action for him in the pensieve 
scene.  

> >>Nora:
> And as others have mentioned, Lupin feels indebted to Dumbledore   
> in away that few other characters are.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Does he resent that, I wonder?  Because while putting all of his 
trust in Dumbledore, Lupin also sounded a bit bitter with the role 
Dumbledore had assigned him.  I can totally see a love/hate dynamic 
going on there.

> >>Pippin:
> <snip>
> The quote widely attributed to Burke  cannot be traced to him.

Betsy Hp:
Well, poo. <g>  

> >>Pippin:
> Burke did say this,"`When bad men combine, the  good must
> associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice
> in a contemptible struggle.' --Thoughts on the Cause
> of the Present Discontents [April 23 1770]
> He also said,"Public life is a situation of power and energy;
> he trespasses against his duty who sleeps upon his watch, as well 
> as he that goes over to the enemy." -ibid

Betsy Hp:
Very interesting.  That first quote seems to speak towards the WW, 
and their paranoid seperating into tiny little groups.  Whereas 
Dumbledore (and the Sorting Hat!) does his best to gather everyone 
toghether.  In a sense you could say that the Marauders failed to 
associate and have therefore fallen, one by one.

The second quote shows *how* the Marauders failed.  Lupin slept on 
his watch and Peter went over to the enemy, and both of them failed 
their friends. 

> >>Pippin:
> Examples of Lupin's initiative and leadership skills are easy to
> overlook.
> <snip of examples>

Betsy Hp:
I agree that they *are* there.  I just...  It always seems to take 
something extraordinary to pull them out.  It *could* be that Lupin 
is hiding his abilities because he's a spy.  But it could also be 
that he's choosing not to use his abilities because he's scared.

> >>Tonks:
> Remus Lupin is a good man, as you say.  But he is not `doing
> nothing'.  He has a different style.  He is the introvert.  He is
> depressed.  He is down trodden.  He is poor.   He is an outcast of
> society.  Any one of those descriptions would portray a person who
> is not going to jump in and "save the day" like a superhero.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I think Snape would fit into all of those descriptors, and Snape 
*does* actively save the day.  Harry could fit most of those 
descriptors as well, especially in PS/SS, and he too pulls a 
superhero move or two.

> >>Tonks:
> He is a person that represents the powerless.  There are many of   
> these folks in RL.  They have learned to just cope, to wait for   
> the more powerful to act, to understand "their place".  And the   
> brave among them when push comes to shove and no one else comes   
> forward to save the day will, at great personal cost, take the    
> risk (an a great risk it is) to come forward and do what must be   
> done.

Betsy Hp:
Hmmm.  I think you're selling Lupin a bit short.  Because he was 
great in OotP.  He lead his team beautifully, and he kept the more 
childish members of the Order (Sirius and Molly, especially with 
each other) under control.  And he wasn't waiting for someone else 
to do it.  He just did it.

But the rest of the time, Lupin *did* wait for someone else to do 
something.  Which yes, people do, and which yes, isn't a horrible 
sin.  But it is weak.  And it's not very helpful to those around 
you.  And in a time of war it can become deadly.  If Sirius really 
was evil and really did want to kill Harry, Harry would have been 
dead in PoA, because Lupin was waiting for someone else to take care 
of it for him.

> >>Tonks:
> Remus is doing his part in the fight against LV.  There are others
> that are good men doing nothing, but Remus is not one of them.

Betsy Hp:
In OotP, absolutely.  In HBP yes, but because of orders.  And the 
man giving him those orders is now dead.  The question is, will 
Lupin regress back to his PoA and GoF state of doing as little as 
possible?  Or will the Ootp Lupin finally stand up?

Betsy Hp, thrilled with all the feedback, thanks!