High Noon for OFH!Snape

[Ceridwen]

No: HPFGUIDX 149421

Sydney:
> The taking of the Vow makes one thing very clear-- Snape is willing 
to
> die.  Not necessarily suicidal, but definitely not holding his life 
at
> a particularly high value.  Anyone who sees a way around this, be my
> guest.

Ceridwen:
I agree here.  But he comes out sounding like someone tragically 
willing to off themselves for a noble cause, but out of despair.  
There are people who are willing to die, and who think their lives 
are not as important as the mission, but are not tragic or 
despairing.  Offering to protect and help Draco is selfless, sure, 
given the parameters set down (LV wants him *un*protected and 
*un*helped).  This is a go-beyond thing, I think.  Though the same 
description applies, the emphasis is changed from not valuing his 
life, to valuing the mission and its ongoing outcome as more 
important.

Sydney:
> Surely it must be clear that of all our Snapes, the most entirely
> incompatible with the Vow is Out-For-Himself!Snape.  People who are
> out for themselves simply do not, under any circumstances short of 
the
> absolutely unavoidable, make promises that they drop dead if they
> don't fulfill.  *(snip)* Snape is not an impulsive, panicky person, 
and he
> certainly was not unavoidably trapped into making the Vow.  And 
Snape
> wasn't Vowing to do something simple-- he was Vowing to do something
> very difficult that Voldemort himself had repeatedly failed to do.

Ceridwen:
I'll stop you here.  The original request was for help and 
protection.  Voldemort probably never tried to help or protect 
Draco.  We now return you to your scheduled program.

Sydney:
> Taking the Vow doesn't work well with ESE!Snape either.

Ceridwen:
Get ready for ESE!/OFH!Snape, then.  Out For Himself because he's 
Ever So Evil and wants to be Supreme Overlord of the Planet, and 
ruthlessly capable of evil manipulations and advanced magicks.  
Spelling intended.  I can easily see this composite version of Snape 
making an appearance in the countdown to book 7 (Harry Potter and the 
Jumble of Loose Threads? or, HP&JoLT?)  Not my fave flavor of Snape, 
not at all.  But, be prepared.

Sydney:
> (snipping thoughts on ACID POPS) So, Snape is ready to die to save 
the
> child, not his own, of the woman he loves.  First, this is pretty 
far
> from being out for yourself;  second, I think that whole scenario
> integrates into the plot a teensy bit better if the woman is Lily 
and
> the child Harry.

Ceridwen:
Plotwise, yes.  But the imagery in Spinner's End, with the Vow, is 
definitely like some sort of dark wedding. And Narcissa's wheedling, 
definitely gave me the impression that she thinks she can manipulate 
Snape, and engineer the Vow, through some sort of feminine wiles.  
She's a pretty woman, from what I can gather.  I wouldn't be 
surprised if Young!Snape, and others, had crushes on her at some 
point during school.  ACID POPS, like LOLIPOPS, suggests some 
lingering obsessive attatchment.  Maybe not.  But, positive feelings 
toward the woman?  Probable, IMO.

LID can't work in this scene, I don't think.  Doesn't it involve the 
life debt to James?  How does James figure in a UV with Narcissa?  Of 
course, Snape may have other interests in life besides owing a dead 
man.  But, LID doesn't work, I don't think.

Sydney:
> One is our old friend Suicidal!Snape.  He took the Vow intending to
> break it.  If he knew that the task was to kill Dumbledore, so much
> the better-- it practically guaranteed his goal, to die a hero (but,
> oh, that pesky DADA curse..). If Dumbledore has been nagging him 
about
> hanging around until he can help bring down Voldemort, he's got an
> easy out here. When Narcissa proposed the Vow, his first thought is,
> 'ooooh, that's that thing where you die, right?  I'm in'.

Ceridwen:
I can't get a picture of Suicidal!Snape in any of the books.  He 
looks, to me, like a man fighting to stay afloat.  A suicider will 
allow himself to sink.  Just my impression.  Suicidal!Snape could 
have manipulated Bellatrix to off him right there, I think.  I can't 
get cozy with your man here.  (which, of course, leaves more of him 
for you *g*)

Sydney:
> Much as I adore Suicidal!Snape, that doesn't account for the jerk of
> the hand at the third clause of the Vow.  I think that was 
definitely
> a "gah" moment.  Plus, it's a bit defeatist for Snape's personality.

Ceridwen:  My impression exactly.  The twitch was singled out, 
spotlighted, close-upped.  There's a reason.  And that reason is that 
Narcissa threw in a third provision not previously agreed upon.

Sydney:
> So looking at this from another angle-- what does anybody have to 
gain
> from the Vow?  Why does Narcissa propose it?  *(snip)*
> 
> I think Narcissa proposed, and Snape took, the Vow, because it was 
the
> only way to protect Draco from Voldemort.  Voldemort intended Draco 
to
> be killed, and if he doesn't die in the attempt, he will be killed
> afterwards-- "He told me to do it or he'd kill me".   But the Vow
> throws a massive spanner in the works-- Snape has effectively lashed
> his fate to Draco's, and Snape is Voldemort's top (well, only
> competent) guy-- "his favorite, his most trusted advisor", Narcissa
> calls him.  Here V-mort thought he had a disposable minion to off 
as a
> punishment to his father;  but now if he pushes Draco too hard, or 
has
> a go at him himself, he also loses one of his most valuable people 
at
> the same time.

Ceridwen:
Good point.  I've never gone at it from Narcissa's POV, other than 
the desperate mother scenario.  But gleaning the fact that LV has 
some pretty stupid minions, and that Snape is one of the few (if not 
the only) competent ones, gives her more depth.  And it puts some 
more depth to the entire scene.  I'll have to go back and read it 
again with that idea in mind.

*(snip)*
Sydney:
> What makes this a nice theory is a) it actually makes sense (always
> good in a theory), and b) it's by way of being a Dark version of
> Lily's sacrifice for Harry.  Snape is ready to die for Draco, but 
it's
> Dark magic, not Love magic, that binds it, and the consequences
> destroy the Light Dumbledore, not the Dark Voldemort.  Coolio!

Ceridwen:
Yes.  There are plenty of mirrors in the WW.  This could well be yet 
another.  Enough of us have mentioned Dumbledore's sacrifce possibly 
mirroring Lily's, on the side of Light, why not one on the side of 
Dark?  And the parallels are more direct, in the 'offing' sense.

Sydney:
> I'm still giving Suicidal!Snape some cred though, because of the 
tower
> scene-- Dumbledore would not have felt he had to PLEAD with Snape, 
if
> he was confident that Snape wouldn't try to break the Vow.

Ceridwen:
Or if he thought that Snape didn't see the same Big Picture he did, 
and was about to allow himself to be sacrificed for the Greater Good 
(think war movies, not From Here To Eternity, where the guy really 
needed some sort of punishment).  Not suicidal, but not cowardly, 
either. 

Sydney:
> Last man standing:  decent, cunning, miserable, instinctively-Dark,
> trying-to-do-the-right-thing-yet-screwing-up,
> not-too-fond-of-being-alive, Snape.  That's my boy.
> 
> -- Sydney, who really DOES have lots of opinions on all sorts of
> non-Snape things in the books, but a) if she posted on them would
> cease to have a life entirely, and b) her posts would mostly consist
> of "I agree with Magpie".

Ceridwen, who also agrees with Magpie, and who points out that she is 
currently manipulating a keyboard without anyone being aghast.