High Noon for OFH!Snape

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 149464

> >>PJ:
> OFH!Snape is far from being suicidal.
> <snip>
> As I see it, it's the other theories that have Snape willing to    
> die.  My Snape *knows* he'll outlive both Dumbledore and          
> Voldemort.  ;)

Betsy Hp:
Which begs the billion dollar question: why'd he make the Vow?

> >>Sydney:
> > Surely it must be clear that of all our Snapes, the most entirely
> > incompatible with the Vow is Out-For-Himself!Snape.  People who 
> > are out for themselves simply do not, under any circumstances    
> > short of the absolutely unavoidable, make promises that they     
> > drop dead if they don't fulfill.

> >>PJ:
> I could turn right around and say that it must be clear to anyone 
> how incompatible it would be for DDM!Snape to willingly take a vow 
> to kill his boss and mentor but that doesn't get us anywhere, does 
> it? 

Betsy Hp:
Well, you sure could, but that's not what Snape entered the Vow for 
in the first place (as you acknowledge later) and there's still the 
billion dollar question:  Why would a man intent on protecting his 
own hide risk his life in such a massive way? 

> >>PJ:
> Snape felt ok taking the vow to protect Draco since he would've    
> tried to do so anyway.  He's been friendly with the Malfoys too    
> long not to.  And he's Draco's head of house which would give him 
> an additional responsibility.  
> Then we have the added bonus of him thinking that this would go a 
> long way in cementing his position as a loyal DE with Bellatrix.  
> It all works for the OFH!Snape personality.

Betsy Hp:
It does?  How?  Why would *out for HIMSELF*!Snape care about the 
Malfoys or his duty as head of house to such an extent he puts his 
*life* on the line?  Doesn't that directly oppose someone being out 
for *himself* rather than his friends or his duty?  I'm also 
confused as to how the Vow would prove his loyalty to Voldemort more 
than booting the two women out of his house with a "The Dark Lord 
has spoken and so it must be."  He took the Vow *in spite* of 
Voldemort's wishes.  Not in obedience to them.

> >>PJ:
> However, the 3rd provision of the vow was never on Snape's radar   
> at all!
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Exactly!  Which is why DDM!Snape folks don't need to explain why 
Snape was willing to take a Vow to kill Dumbledore.

> >>PJ:
> OFH!Snape wants freedom of CHOICE.  That's all.  He lives simply   
> and has no real need of money and as far as he's concerned he      
> already *has* more power than both of the "titans"... all he wants 
> is to be left in peace with his old grudges, potions and spells.  
> All these are things he can't have until the tug of war stops      
> between Dumbledore and Voldemort...

Betsy Hp:
Exactly!  That's exactly why OFH!Snape doesn't work.  Because in 
Spinner's End Snape takes a calculated risk that he *knew* was going 
to *limit* his choices.  There's reasons for DDM!Snape to take that 
risk.  But there is *no* reason for a character intent on keeping 
his head down to choose to involve himself so heavily in 
Dumbledore's and Voldemort's little tug of war.  OFH!Snape is like 
Chewbacca on Endor.  It does not. make. sense.

> >>Sydney:
> > What does this leave us with?  Not a whole lot.  No two ways     
> > about it, taking the Vow was an extremely weird thing to do.
 
> >>PJ:
> Not at all!  When Cissy suggested the vow it was like an early     
> Christmas present for OFH!Snape.  He shows the depth of his        
> friendship and loyalty to the Malfoys as well as shutting         
> Bellatrix up once and for all!

Betsy Hp:
Um... Why would OFH!Snape care about the Malfoys?

> >>PJ:
> All this when, as HoH, he'd have done all of this anyway... it was 
> no skin off Snape's nose to take that vow.

Betsy Hp:
The Vow that if it's broken you *die*?  That Vow?  Yeah, I think 
there was a huge possibility of skin being removed from noses here.  
Snape was Vowing to help Draco while he tried to kill one of the 
main players in the little war Snape (according to OFH rules) was 
trying to avoid taking part in.  How could Snape *not* recognize 
that Draco was about to put his life in some serious danger.  That 
was the main talking point of his and Narcissa's discussion during 
that chapter.  Why on earth would Snape see tying his life to 
Draco's as no big deal?

> >>Sydney:
> > *furrows brow*  Sorry, I must have missed the part where you    
> > explain why he took the Vow in the first place. That was my     
> > point.  He wouldn't have taken the Vow unless he was willing to 
> > die.

> >>Nora:
> I don't know; I know full well that I could die every time I go
> skiing in the woods, but I don't intend to, trusting in my        
> abilities to keep me afloat for the reward of extreme sore knees   
> and the thrill of the sheer insanity.

Betsy Hp:
Um, okay.  So OFH!Snape is also a danger freak?  He took the Vow 
because he was looking for a rush?  I'd love a bit of canon pointing 
to this aspect of our Professor Snape. <g>  Though I'd add that the 
look of calculation suggests that Snape didn't do this in some sort 
of "ooh shiny!" kind of impulsive behavior that we've seen more 
often displayed in Sirius.  Plus, there's the whole "keep my head 
down and be the last man standing" vibe that OFH has that "yay! 
danger rush!" doesn't really jell with.

> >>Nora:
> <snip>
> And then he gets caught in a situation he probably would have     
> wanted to avoid, cornered by Narcissa into a moment of            
> commitment.

Betsy Hp:
I can see how a DDM!Snape is cornered here.  Or at least, how he's 
lead to think that taking the Vow is a good way to go.  But why 
would OFH!Snape feel cornered here?  What power does Narcissa have?

> >>Nora:
> And I am also probably more fine with a streak of irrationality in 
> the character than most people; there's been a tendency for years 
> to make Snape into the calculating Ice King, regardless of his    
> canonical CAPSLOCK tendencies.

Betsy Hp:
There's a reason it's called CAPSLOCK, and that's because there are 
usually a lot of uppercase letters involved in the text.  That's 
missing in this scene, and especially at the moment Snape decides to 
take the Vow.  Snape *can* be ruled by his emotions, I agree.  The 
scene in the Shrieking Shack proves that.  But this scene was 
nothing like that scene.  CAPSLOCK!Snape was not 
present.  "Unemotional, impossible to read"!Snape was there 
instead.  And it's impossible (having seen the tries <g>) to assign 
a logical reason for OFH!Snape to make such a choice.

> >>Sydney:
> > And here's the classic problem with OFH!Snape posts-- to a large
> > extent it seems to be all about saying, "I'm not even going to   
> > try to get into this person's head, because obviously he's      
> > nothing like a normal human being, or certainly nothing like ME, 
> > so he doesn't have to make any sense.

> >>Nora:
> No, he just doesn't have to be what any of us *want* him to be.  So
> many of the arguments do have a layer of "This doesn't make sense 
> to me, therefore it can't be what JKR is writing."

Betsy Hp:
I agree with both of you. <g>  The OFH!Snape argument is based 
largly on "eh, he makes no sense so he must OFH" with a side order 
of "and while I *want* him to be ESE, JKR isn't writing him that way 
and since I can't stand the idea of Snape being DDM, I'll stick with 
the impossible to make sense of OFH".  

Meanwhile us DDM!Snape folks sit back and think, "Thanks JKR for 
such a gift of a character!"

> >>Nora:
> <snip>
> Maybe I've just become a jaded old listie after all of this
> time, but I've seen far, far more complicated and involved (and
> dramatic and mysterious) theories and explanations than this fall 
> by the wayside or be crushed in one fell swoop of a book.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
That's the beauty of DDM!Snape.  It's neither complicated nor really 
that mysterious, and it's based soundly on canon rather than 
esoteric symbolism.  I kind of hate to say it, but DDM!Snape is the 
Harry/Ginny of Snape theories. <very evil grin>

Betsy Hp