What Dumbledore trusts Snape to do? WAS: Re: High Noon for OFH!Snape

[Sydney]

No: HPFGUIDX 149585

. 
> > Dumbledore assuring various Order members that they can trust Snape
> > with their lives, when he actually meant, oh, no, just HARRY'S 
> life,
> > he'd totally sell YOU down the river, but I'm going to be coy about
> > it, hee hee-- that doesn't really line up for me.  
> 
> Alla:
> 
> But he does not, Sydney, Dumbledore does not say that - that various 
> Order members should  trust Snape with their lives, or at least I 
> should say to cover myself that I really don't remember him saying 
> that. If you do, could you please send me to the relevant canon?

You are a member of a small underground society that is being targeted
by a ruthless and deadly terrorist organization, and you are sitting
in meetings where your plans are being discussed, and your identies
know, with a double-agent-- a conspicuously shifty and hostile
double-agent.  When you ask your leader, "Can we really trust this
guy?", it just stands to reason you mean, "Can we trust this guy with
our lives?", not "Can we trust this guy to find really great jazz
clubs?"  If Dumbledore was telling  Moody, McGonnegal, and Lupin-- all
characters who relate such assurance-- that he 'trusts Snape', it
would be a pretty outrageous piece of sophistry of him to really mean,
"I only trust him on this one very specific point, on which he is
magically constrained, and only in matters relating to this specific
person who is not you".  Lupin is supposed to be spying undercover on
werewolves led by psychopath.  Do you honestly think that Dumbledore
is assuring him that he trusts Snape, but concealing the vital
information that he doesn't in fact trust Snape with Lupin's life,
just with Harry's?  Why wouldn't he say, "We have to be careful around
Severus on many things, but I have my reasons to trust him on Plan X
that involves Harry"?  McGonnegal says D-dore "wouldn't hear a word
against him".  Is this honestly a Dumbledore who DOESN'T trust Snape
completely?  And how does 'trusting Snape completely' gel with
'trusting Snape only a very, very narrow parameter'?

This does not have the smooth click of something falling into place. 
At least for me.  

Would this LD theory now presume that, if asked by any Order member in
a general sense, post-GoF Dumbledore would say: "I trust Peter
Pettigrew completely"?  That he "wouldn't hear a word against
Pettigrew"?  Because that's what this theory implies.

 
> Sydney: 
> > And, (I don't have my books with me, but off the top of my head),
> > Dumbledore testifies in court-- the sort of thing I presume he 
> swore
> > an oath to -- that Snape came over to OUR side before V-morts fall,
> > that "he's now no more a Death Eater than I am".
> 
> Alla:
> 
> How is it relevant to Dumbledore maybe omiting what he trusts Snape 
> to do? Sure, it could be true that at that moment in time Snape was 
> not a DE, why not? 

Well, he's testifying that Snape is on their side.  And no more a DE
than D-dore himself.  Meaning, I dunno, Snape is on their side, and--
I just don't know how to put this more clearly-- no more a Death Eater
than Dumbledore himself.  You may think this compatible with
Dumbledore actually meaning that Snape is only magically constrained
to protect one person on their side, Harry Potter; that he would still
follow V-mort if he could; and that in all other respects he's
essentially a Death Eater and would return in a second if he could pay
back the life debt.  For some reason, that doesn't really work for me.


> Alla:
> 
> Dumbledore looks as if he tries to make up his mind and THEN says 
> that he trusts Snape, if I may bring it up again. Could it be 
> because he is NOT sure that Snape is on our side and he does NOT say 
> that directly, he just says what you quoted. "I am sure. I trust 
> Severus Snape completely" 

"How can you be sure he's on our side?"  Pause.  "I am sure. I trust
Severus Snape completely".  *turns head this way and that*  Um, yeah.
 I can see how that would work.  If you really, really want to make it
work.  It's not as big a stretch as all the other instances, but it's
still, IMO, a long, looong stretch.

"I do believe he worked so hard to protect you this year because he
felt that would make him and your father even".

*turns head this way and that*  This, more of a stretch.  I dunno,
this takes a lot of clipping and stretching to turn it into, "he HAD
to work so hard to protect you this year because he KNEW it would make
him and your father even." Doesn't he even follow it up with something
about 'funny how people's minds work'?  

I'm also curious, of course, about how LD's will play out and what
'magic at it's deepest and most mysterious' looks like.  Perhaps the
Life Debt is related the mercy thing, and possibly involves saving the
life of someone you can't stand?  Because it's symbolically about the
brotherhood of man whoever they are, or something?

-- Sydney, who is now fantasizing about Harry owing a life debt to
Draco, and wonders how well he would handle that!