[HPforGrownups] Re: Portkey in GOF - Logistics

[Kemper]

No: HPFGUIDX 149684

 > Kemper now:
> > While Amiable D offers a good reason, I don't see Voldemort as
> > attention seeking.  What evidence we've seen is Tom and Voldemort
> > as secretive. Voldemort didn't leave his business card at Madam
> > Bones ....  He shows up at the DoM not to battle.  He's there for
> > the desire to learn the prophecy ...
> >
>
> bboyminn:
>
> Once again, I'm reminded of several blind men 'looking' at an
> elephant. Considering that Voldemort's objective is to /take over the
> world/; that's hardly an occupation for a quiet reluctant recluse.
>

Kemper now:
He doesn't even want to take over the British WW, what makes you think he
wants to take over the world?!  He had opportunity as a young man to go into
politics but didn't take it.  He could've changed things from the inside to
become Emperor someday (see Sen. Palpatine) but he chose differently.  Your
despots went this route, but the Voldemort you see hasn't.



> Steve continues:
>
>
 Yes, Voldemort is secretive, but that doesn't eliminate the fact that
> he is an egomaniacal megalomaniac. He holds power by holding the
> illusion of power. ... He is ruthless and brutal,
> but also a great orator; one who knows how to tell people the things
> they WANT to hear, no matter how irrational those things are. An
> extention of this talent is to tell the most blatant and outrageous
> lies and in doing so to make people believe that those lies are the
> absolute irrefutable gospel truth.
>
> If that isn't pure theater on the world stage, then I don't know what is.
>

Kemper now:
If by 'world stage' you mean 'secret meetings' similar to Klan meetings or
to Cheny's energy meetings, then I totally agree with you because the world,
the public aren't privy to secret meetings.



> Steve continues: We can see similar examples in the real world today. Take
> Osama Bin
> Laden. He is very secretive. He feeds his followers on the most
> blatant and irrational lies, and they believe it with deathly fervor.
> He is constantly re-assering his absolute power. He takes action on
> the world stage that make him one of the most well known crimials.
>
> Yet, to anyone who is rational, to anyone who can divorce themselves
> from the hyper-inflamed rhetoric and blatant lies, we see that he is a
> weak, deranged, irrational, and hopelessly doomed soul. Very much as
> Voldemort is.
>

Kemper now:
Though this is OT, I don't see Bin Laden that way.  He isn't like the
despots you listed.  They kill just because.  He kills for a cause.  I'm so
rational that I don't assume to understand Arabic and Sunni culture and/or
language.  If you have been emerged in that language and culture, and have a
fluency and understanding of the nuances in both, then I'll have to take
your word.



> > Kemper contiues:
> > However, Steve, I believe that Moody could've successfully gotten
>
> > Harry to grasp a portkey.  It goes something like this.
> >
> > Harry knocked on Moody's office door.
> > "Come in, Potter. Oh... and can you bring be that book over there,
> > ...edited...
> >
> > -Kemper
>
>
> bboyminn:
>
> Yes, but you are missing to crucial points, first is timing and second
> is that they want to get away with it. Not just get Harry, but get
> Harry and get away with it. You seem to have missed this bit of my
> previous post -
>
>
> "Further, I suspect that fake!Moody intends to get away with it and go
> on to serve the Dark Lord. If he enchants Harry's toothbrush, odds are
> he will have been seen lurking around an area where he would have no
> logical reason to lurk; ie: the Commons Room and the Dorms."
>
> In your scenario, Harry steps into Moody's office and is never seen
> again. Certainly in a busy school someone would have seen or known
> about this, and Moody would be stuck trying to explain that which
> could not be explained.
>

Kemper now:
Seriously, Steve, in so many of your posts you present very logical
possibililties to various senarios.  Why is it so hard to see my scenario
(which by the way, addressed your early post that you re-posted)?  For those
who are just reading, hear it is:

1st from steve: Regardless of the object the Fake!Moody enchants, there is a
good chance that some one other than Harry will pick it up. For example,
people most often suggest Harry's toothbrush, but the phrase 'Ron,hand me my
toothbruch' pretty much shoot that one down.

2nd from me:
Harry knocked on Moody's office door.
"Come in, Potter. Oh... and can you bring be that book over there, no not
that one, the one that's called 'Moste Potente Potions'. Yes.  That's the
one. I sometimes brew up a little something-something from that book."
Harry grabs the book.  Instantly, Harry felt a jerk somewhere behind his
navel.  His feet had left the ground.  He could not unclench the hand
holding the potions book.  It was was pulling him onward in a howl of wind
and swirling color.

...now, yes he steps in the office and is never seen again.  Are you
thinking that in my scenario, Moody goes back to grading papers?!  In my
scenario, Moody walks out of Hogwarts, out of the grounds and disapparates
without a trace.  Or, even better, he makes a portkey for himself and heads
for the graveyard.


> Steve continues:
>
>
 Again, while it is not impossible for Moody to transport Harry under
> random circumstances, it is to much grander effect to have him
> disappear with no known explanation at a high profile event, and with
> no known person associated with that disappearance. In other word, the
> 'theater' aspect of taking Harry from the maze, and it's corresponding
> effect on the wizard world is much greater using the method they used.
> It also makes for a much better book.
>

Kemper now:
Who's argueing that the book should have been different?  I'm saying that
Voldemort, though narcisistic, isn't an attention whore.  You're saying he
is.  He wasn't interested in the blood of any old wizard for his potion, he
was interested Harry's for narcistic reasons not theatre.


> Ultimately, that last statement is the most important. Fictional Evil
> Overlords make the choice they ultimately make because that is what
> makes for a good story. One quick look at the 'Evil Overlords
> Handbook' would show them the folly of their ways, but it would make
> for very dull stories.
>

Kemper now:
Again, who's argueing that the book should be different?  I'm argueing your
belief that it is Voldemort a drama queen more than an Evil Overlord.  I
worked out Voldemort's reason to wait til the third task instead of
earlier as follows:
he wanted to return to Hogwarts with his Death Eaters using the portkey for
a multiple-school (Beauxbatons, Drumstrang, Hogwarts) massacre that would
leave the WW emotionally lost and dark.
That isn't theater, that's terror.

-Kemper


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