Prophesies Re: Who calls Voldemort "Lord"

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 149747

Darqali:
> Well, how about it, folks?  What is the nature of Prophecy?  Does
> it come *from* some person, or just *through* the person?  Does
> the choice of words {such as "The Dark Lord"} have significance?
> Has JKR been *consistant* in her  use of the concept of Prophecy 
> in the HP series?  After all, she tells us Prophecies don't have
> to come true; that often, when they do, it is because people 
> *believed* what they said, and acted to *make* them true ... yet,
> we see Sibyll's second Prophecy about LV come true at once .....

Jen: By nature the prophecies and outcomes would have to be 
inconsistent. With the shelves and shelves of prophecies lining that 
cathedral-like room in the DOM, there can't be any consistency to 
how they are heard, acted on or not, and etc.  Some are likely 
fraudulent, made up by unethical Seers. Some were likely never acted 
on and came to nothing or conversely, came true anyway without 
action taken. That's what happened with the prophecy in POA, Harry 
didn't even remember it during the events of the evening and wasn't 
manipulating a certain outcome but it still came to pass.

No matter Dumbledore's (biased against Divination) explanation of 
events, he doesn't explain how he happened to be the one who heard 
the prophecy in the first place, the one person equipped to actually 
*do* something about it should Voldemort act on it. I find that 
compelling enough information to think prophecies are meant to be 
taken as the real deal sometimes. JKR can't make them completely the 
Will of the Fates because her choice theme would be undermined, yet 
there's an undercurrent of fate going on there.
 
Ceridwen: 
> Maybe the difference between Sybil and Cassandra (wasn't that
> gggmthr's name?) could be that Cassandra allowed her waking mind 
> to actually be more aware of these inner workings and so was able
> to control the setting and the audience for her predictions, while
> Sybil may not feel truly gifted and so forces a false personna 
> (the change between her misty-voiced false personna and the harsh 
> voice of prophecy) that masks the goings-on of her 'inner seer',
> even, or especially, to herself.

Jen: Trelawney's got the gift, I think, just covers it up by 
pursuing 'fortune-telling' as the centaurs called it. Maybe doesn't 
have the discipline or can't focus her vibes. ;)

Ceridwen:
> So, when Sybil made the prophecy to Dumbledore, events were
> beginning to dovetail down toward the fulfillment of the
> prophecy.  If this was anywhere from October to January, Lily and 
> Alice would have just become pregnant or just have learned or
> suspected as much; meanwhile, Voldemort is, as always, 
> Pinky, 'trying to take over the world'.  The two knife-edges slice 
> at angles toward the same point: the end of the Dark Lord.  (Think
> of it as a slice of pie)

Jen: So prophecies would be more a reflection of the time at hand 
rather than directing it? I think that's what you're saying here and 
I agree. Something in the ether (another moment of the fifth leg of 
the quintaped, eh?) can intepret and respond.

Cerdiwen:
> Sybil's inner seer must have some control over who it reveals its 
> gleaned knowledge.  So, Dumbledore, as one who is powerful and 
> opposed to LV, is seen as worthy of hearing that prophecy.  Harry,
> as the prophecy boy and as someone with a vested interest in what
> is going on, is worthy to hear the other.  So, the way I see it,
> everything depends on the sympaties of the seer as to who gets the
> propecies.

Jen: Maybe I just like the idea of Fate having a hand in the WW but 
I felt like Trelwaney didn't choose DD so much as the ether or 
whatever initiates the prophecy in the first place. She was tuned 
into the possibilty of delivering the prophecy until the time when 
the right moment and right person came together. 

Ceridwen:
> These prophecies do not have to come true.  Choice determines
> which of several threads will come together.  These are just red-
> flagged threads which, if they do intertwine, will be 
> significant.  LV could have chosen to scoff at the idea of seers;
> Peter could have been captured if it hadn't been for DADACurse!
> Lupin forgetting his potion.  As these threads did come together,
> then the propecies came true.

Jen: And JKR said she was bad at maths! That sounds like 
probabilities at work there. Maybe she's better at the theory than 
the practical application <g>. 


Ceridwen: 
> As for calling LV the 'Dark Lord', he *is* a Dark Lord.  At the
> time, he is the only Dark Lord in operation.  It's more of a
> formal designation despite who uses it.  

Jen: I chalked this one up to a dramatic literary moment more than 
anything else. That, and the impersonal nature of the Fates--it 
refers to an unknown person and a theoretically unknown Dark Lord; 
the listener has to intepret what the prophecy means rather than be 
spoon-fed. And from what the centaurs say, the door is open for 
Dumbleore and Voldemort to have made a mistake.

Jen R.