[HPforGrownups] Draco's Redemption / LiD!Snape rides again

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 149768

> Magpie:
> He doesn't speak proudly about those attempted murders, or praise
> himself over them or speak arrogantly about them.

a_svirn:
He did praise himself for working diligently on Dumbledore's
destruction under Dumbledore's own nose. He's preening himself on
his poisoning plot and all logistics involved - Rosmerta's enforced
co-operation, charmed coins. He was actually very pleased with
himself about it.

Magpie:
There are things that Draco shows pride in in the scene--and things that 
Dumbledore praises as well.  However, Dumbledore calls the wine plot and the 
necklace plot feeble and Draco does not disagree. He does not defend the 
plan he's so proud of it, just "vehemently" insists (unconcincingly) that 
his heart really was in it (which suggests he's even more useless).  I'd 
think gloating over the collateral damage would at least make him sound more 
like the killer he's trying to sound like.

> Magpie:
> I didn't think Dumbledore was lying--it seemed like this scene
> turned on just how much Dumbledore understood Draco's mindset and
> actions.
>
a_svirn:
Well, I don't think he was lying too. I just happen to think that
your interpretation of Dumbledore's words is inaccurate. You
effectively compared Draco's botched murder attempts to deloping in
a duel - a deliberate conscious *avoiding* murder by firing into the
air. There seem to be a contradiction here - either you are
attempting murder, or you are deliberately sabotaging it. Draco did
not sabotage his own attempts; he just didn't aim very
discriminatively. Which, as I said before, is an aggravating
circumstance rather than mitigating. Because he did not care how
many lives he'd claim in the process of eliminating Dumbledore.

Magpie:
Dumbledore says Draco's heart was not in these murder attempts with the 
necklace and the wine.  I don't see how that could possibly translate into 
saying Draco is not only intent on killing Dumbledore but didn't care who 
else he took out along with him.  That suggests his heart being very much in 
it, imo.  I think if that's what Dumbledore meant he would have said that, 
spoken more about Katie and Ron and basically just had a completely 
different conversation with Draco--if he wasn't dead at the hand of Draco 
and his strong intent to kill. It's not uncommon for people sabotage their 
own attempts at things without owning their sabotage.

Carol:

> Carol, noting that the sullen and rather cowardly Draco is still at
> the stage of making excuses ("He'll kill me if I don't do it": "I
> didn't ask *him* [Greyback] to come") and has yet to join Snape in the
> agony of remorse

Magpie:
Well, yeah he hasn't.  That would be skipping way ahead to get him to 
agonized remorse from a story that ends at the moment of truth--and then 
getting him all the way to sullen excuses for the whole thing (he's not 
sullen on either of those lines).  Those lines aren't part of a Snape-like 
arc.  It's like saying that since Snape isn't losing weight or sleep he 
hasn't joined Draco in seeing this as a bad situation--it's two different 
stories and two different journeys.

The biggest reason Draco hasn't yet (if he's going to, which he may not, of 
course) joined Snape in the agony of remorse is, imo, Dumbledore's 
controversial line about "no real harm" being done. If he was going to feel 
remorse, it would be at the earliest after this scene in the Tower. 
Dumbledore seemed to want to save him from that agony.  Snape may have as 
well.

-m