DDM!Snape & the UV/Have Snape ever killed anybody?

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 149809

Alla:>
> > What I am trying to say is that Dumbledore has no other capable
and
> > powerful adults at this point to summon to his help( I mean, of
> > course he has the Order, but Snape seems to be the most powerful
> > magic strength wise IMO) ,
>
> Magpie:
>
> LOL--So Dumbledore has no other capable and powerful
adults...except for
> that small army of capable and powerful adults waiting at the
ready that
> you're going to arbitrarily dismiss so that he has to call Snape?
No, even
> if Snape is a god amongst mortal wizards, which I don't think he
is, there's
> no reason Dumbledore needs him alone to fight off Death Eaters.
Even if he
> thought this was important enough to blow the cover of the Double
Agent he's
> nurtured for years, he could call him as part of the team.

Alla:

I said "of course he has the Order", didn't I? But in any event, was
just speculating, not holding to this idea, although I see nothing
strange in speculating that the wizard who is more capable in
fighting Dark Wizards is the wizard who had the most exposure, most 
direct contacts with those wizards than anybody else in the order,.

I am still to discover that ANYBODY in the order was inventing dark
curses except Snape, to me it seems quite reasonable to speculate
that former DE will have the most knowledge how to fight them.

> Carol responds:
<SNIP>
> I've already explained that Snape's claim to have had a hand in
> killing Sirius Black is baseless, but here it is again.

Alla:

We shall see, Carol, we shall see when the book seven comes
along . :) In any event, addressing few small points.

Carol:
  *Wormtail*
> would have told LV back in VW1 that Black was an Order member. If
he
> didn't tell LV then that Black was an Animagus (and the form he
took)
> then, he certainly would have done so when he explained his return
to
> Voldemort at the end of PoA.

Alla:

Why would he have done so? Why would he be interested AT ALL in
giving Voldemort information about Sirius first thing he returned?
Wouldn't he be interested in doing more pressing things like
convincing Voldemort in his ultimate loyalty and talking about
whatever he knows about Harry, not Sirius? But of course we don't
know what Wormtail told Voldemort,so my only contention of your
speculation is to word "certainly". Could you refer me to relevant
canon?

Carol:

  *Kreacher* told the Malfoys that Sirius
> Black was the one person that Harry cared enough about to save, and
> the plan was to make Harry think that LV held Black captive to lure
> *Harry* to the MoM. The Order members, including Black, weren't
> supposed to be there. Snape told Black *not* to go to the MoM, but
> Black chose to disregard him and ordered Kreacher to wait for DD
> instead. Black carelessly taunted Bellatrix as they fought near the
> Veil and she sent him through it. Where does Snape fit in? What
could
> have told LV that he didn't already know?

Alla:

Where does Snape fit in? Let's say he went to Voldemort's or Malfoys
EARLIER than Kreacher did and first alerted Malfoys as to bond of
love existing between Sirius and Harry, or alerted Voldemort of such
bond earlier than Kreacher. Considering that Snape confirms that he
played a part of Sirius death, I consider that to be more than
speculation, but canon supported argument.

After all, do we know that Malfoys were surprised to learn what
Kreacher told them or they just smiled knowingly or something like
that?

Carol:
> As for Emmeline Vance, perhaps as a double agent he provided some
> small bit of information on her (probably with DD's permission)
but he
> clearly didn't kill her or he would have said so.

Alla:

Perhaps, or perhaps he did more than that, since played a part in
the death (paraphrasing) sounds like pretty significant
participation to me.

Carol:

<SNIP>
Any statement that Snape must
> have killed because he belonged to a gang of terrorists is not
only an
> assumption, it ignores Karkaroff's testimony that not all of the
DEs
> were murderers and those whose tasks he identifies were
specialists in
> a particular curse or task.

Alla:

Please refer me to the part of Karkarov's testimony where he says
that those DE whom he sells out as spies or torture specialists
never killed anybody? He mentions their tasks yes, where does he say
that they never killed at all?

You are telling me that Dolohov for example who tortured Muggles
never killed anybody? How likely it is? Not likely if you ask me.


Carol:
<SNIP>
  I'm guessing that Voldemort,
> whatever doubts he had or has about where Snape's loyalties lie,
would
> not have risked the life (or arrest) of a uniquely valuable
servant by
> sending him out to maim and kill when others were ready and eager
to
> do exactly that.

Alla:

And I am asking again. How do you know that Snape received such an
honor of being allowed not to kill anybody? Sure, he has many
talents suitable for Voldemort's, but as far as we know other DE
also can have many talents and Snape is the only one who never got
his hands dirty?

> Sherry now:
<SNIP>
   If he's truly had some kind of life changing event that
> brought him back to DD and for which he experienced genuine
remorse, it only
> works for me, if he's done something truly terrible.
<SNIP>


Alla:

Yep, that's a million dollar question for me too. Why would Snape
fans ( well, I am a Snape fan too, but as a villainous, dark, dark
character, so I am not counting myself here) want Snape to not do
anything terrible? What kind of redemption that would be? Wouldn't
one want such character to travel to the depths of hell before he
gets redeemed? Only then that would be truly meaningful redemption
in my book.


JMO,

Alla