Have Snape ever killed anybody before? WAS: Re: seeds of betrayal

[hickengruendler]

No: HPFGUIDX 149834

 
> Carol wrote:
>snip>
Nor do I buy the deaths
> of the Potters as the single event that turned him around, since he
> began spying for DD months, perhaps more than a year, before 
Godric's
> Hollow.  

Hickengruendler:

I know that this was not the main point of your post. I snipped the 
rest with which I pretty much agree (except that I do think, that 
Snape/Lily is a realistic possibility) and wanted to concentrate on 
this part, because I thought about it. The thing is, Harry's theory 
(or his interpretation of Dumbledore's words), which he presented in 
the Hospital Wing after Dumbledore's death is wrong. Definitely and 
without a doubt. 

Here's the quote again just as a reminder: "...Then Snape told 
Dumbledore he hadn't realised what he was doing, he was really sorry 
he'd done it, sorry that they were dead."

Well, the first two parts might very well be true, no matter on which 
side Snape is, but the last one certainly is not, as Carol already 
mentioned in the quote above. Snape cannot have shown regret for 
James' and Lily's death because at the time he went to Dumbledore 
James and Lily weren't dead. Not to mention, that he worked as a spy. 
And no matter on which side he is, he started spying when Voldemort 
was still around. He even told Bella and Narcissa that he went to 
Hogwarts on Voldemort's orders, which I think is the truth (except 
that Voldemort didn't realise for whom Snape was really spying and 
that it was merely an excellent exuse for Snape to be near Dumbledore 
and giving him informations without Tom realising it). Anyway, 
Bellatrix and Narcissa certainly would have known if Snape started in 
Hogwarts after after Voldemort became Vapormort and would confronted 
him on this lie if it were one. Therefore it's a fact that Snape went 
to Dumbledore *before* James and Lily died and therefore regret 
because of their deaths (no matter if genuine or fake regret) could 
hardly have been the reason Snape presented Dumbledore. He could have 
shown regret for putting their lives in danger, yes, but not for 
their deaths. 

Therefore Harry's interpretation is wrong and I wonder, why JKR wrote 
it that way. I mean, as it is, it can hardly be seen as a last word 
on the subject, because of a glaring factual error. (And I mean a 
really big one, much bigger than some unimportant Weasley or Black 
birth dates). Not to mention, that it would only have been necessary 
to change the last part of the sentence to avoid this error. While I 
wouldn't totally rule it out (Jo did screw up with the Priori 
Incantatem in GoF, but nonetheless genereally she has planned it out 
very well), I currently do think that she wrote this on purpose, so 
that we question Harry's statement, instead of merely taking it as a 
fact like the others in the Hospital Wing did. What I do know for 
sure is it that those were Harry's words and not Dumbledore's, who 
did not mention anything about Snape showing regret for James' and 
Lily's *death*. 

Which brings us back to the spy who told Dumbledore, that the 
Potter's lives were in danger (and finally to the real reason for my 
post, a theory *why* Dumbledore exactly trusted Snape). In the long 
wait before OotP it was a widely speculated theory, that this spy was 
Snape. I believed it then and I still do. And with Dumbledore's 
statement about Snape coming to him showing remorse I guess it is as 
good as canon. In fact, it's possible to have Snape being loyal to 
Voldemort or OFH and still him being the spy, who gave this 
information. What I want to know, however, is, why Dumbledore still 
needed this? He heard the full prophecy, he realised that either the 
Potters or the Longbottoms were in danger and he probably did 
eevrything trying to save both families (I hope). Therefore the 
information Snape gave him (or even if it wasn't Snape, there's 
definitely a spy who told this Dumbledore) must have been, that 
Voldemort chose Harry instead of Neville. Because everything else 
Dumbledore already knew, and more than this, both Snape and Voldemort 
knew, that Dumbledore knew. That means it hardly could have been a 
complot between them like: "Well, just go to Hogwarts, Snape, and 
tell Dumbledore some information about that Potter boy being in 
danger. So this way you will be able to win his trust". Dumbledore's 
answer probably would have been: "Well, I thought so, Severus. If you 
remember, I heard the prophecy". The only valuable information 
Dumbledore did not possess at this time was Voldemort's decision 
between Harry and Neville. And maybe this informationw as it, that 
made Snape gaining Dumbledore's trust. 

My theory is, that Voldemort chose Harry and Snape was horrified, 
because James saved his life/he was secretly in love with Lily/Lily 
was decent to him in school/add whichever reason you prefer, and 
tried everything to protect the Potters. Then Voldemort could somehow 
have feeded Dumbledore false information, to make him believe that it 
was baby Neville, who was in danger. This could have triggered 
Snape's decision to go to Dumbledore, telling him, which infant 
*really* needed protection. Snape's information turned out to be 
correct, making Dumbledore trust him completely. By the way, this 
interpretation is IMO even possible, if Snape is OFH, without making 
Dumbledore looking to much like an old fool.

Hickengruendler