But DID James listen? (was LID!Snape rides again )

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 149982

Ceridwen wrote:
> <snip> It's certain that Snape got the impression that James was
ignoring his warning.  He thought Sirius was the SK at least through PoA.

Carol responds:
I agree with you to this point.

Ceridwen:
> <snip> I don't know if Snape represented himself as coming from
Dumbledore, or if he just snarkily cast aspersions on Sirius's
character.  I can see it happening both ways, but have no canon at
hand to choose one over the other.

Carol:
I don't think there is any canon for what he said or how he presented
himself, only his assertion that James "arrogantly" rejected his
warning. Both would be in character, and his coming from Dumbledore
would explain how he knew there was a Secret Keeper in the first
place. (Voldemort wouldn't know that, and why would Snape make his
connection to Voldemort known? That would hurt his cause, not help it.)
> 
Ceridwen:
> But, how about this for a scenario:  James rejects Snape's warning
initially, but he and Sirius decide that, since Snape, probably known
as LV's man at that time, knew that they would use Sirius as SK, they
 decided on the strength of that possibly being common DE knowledge, 
to change the SK?  

Carol: 

But the SK change was *Sirius's* suggestion, as he states in PoA, not
James's, and I doubt that Sirius Black would do anything that Severus
Snape suggested, not to mention going along with Snape's suggestion
that he, Black, was the traitor. I think Snape approached James and
possibly Lily with no one else present, which would explain why Black,
Lupin, and Pettigrew seem to know nothing about it.

Also, even in GoF, Black has no idea that Snape was a Death Eater, and
surely James would have told him that deliciously Dark tidbit if he
knew it. And if James knew that Snape was a DE, why would he take his
advice?

Straightforward reading (IMO): Snape approaches James alone or with
Lily and tells him that he knows from Dumbledore that one of the
Potters' friends is a traitor who has been leaking secrets to
Voldemort. Mentioning DD's Secret Keeper suggestion would enhance his
credibility: He could not know that unless DD himself had told him.
But James, who has already rejected Dumbledore as Secret Keeper in
favor of Sirius, "arrogantly" rejects Snape's advice. 

Both Dumbledore and Snape continue to think that James will go through
with his plan to make Black the SK; they have no reason to think
otherwise. But Black, thinking that he's being tricky and clever,
suggests Pettigrew instead as the least obvious choice, and the
Potters go along with him, not because of Snape's suggestion but
because he's James's best friend who has his best interests at heart.

Anyway, the only canon we have is that James rejected DD's offer to be
SK and chose Black instead; that Snape says he warned James against
Black and was "arrogantly" rejected; that Black, not James, suggested
the switch to Pettigrew; that Black as late as GoF did not know that
Snape had been a DE (or that he was spying on the DEs for Dumbledore
at the time of the SK switch); and that Snape as of the Shrieking
Shack scene in PoA believed that Pettigrew was dead and that Black
betrayed the Potters. All of this information is based on the word of
the characters involved (Snape, Black, and DD) but there's no reason
(other than an assumption of ESE!Snape) to think that they're lying.

Whether Snape's advice backfired or not, I can't see "the assumption
that the SK was DE common knowledge" being the reason offered for the
SK change. Voldie wouldn't even have known about it unless the traitor
had told him, and as secretive as he is, he certainly wouldn't have
announced something that hadn't happened yet to his DEs. More
important, Snape would not have gone to the Potters and said, "I'm a
DE, but I'm really working for Dumbledore, so I'm warning you that
Voldemort knows about your Secret Keeper plan." What he warned James
Potter against was a traitor who was leaking information on the
Potters to LV, a traitor he believed to be Sirius Black, but he would
certainly have used Dumbledore, not Voldemort, as the source of his
information.

Another point, too--Snape at this point was already teaching Potions
at Hogwarts, so his source of info would have to be DD, not LV. But
Black didn't know that Snape was at Hogwarts until the Shrieking Shack
scene, again suggesting that he wasn't present when Snape informed JP
that one of his friends was a traitor and that he believed the traitor
to be Sirius Black. IMO, this bit of information from his childhood
enemy would have had the opposite effect--it would have confirmed him
in his wish to make SB the Secret Keeper (and confirmed Snape in his
belief that that was the case). It was Black, not Snape, who talked
the Potters into changing SKs.

Carol, still not sure whether Snape knew about the SK plan or only
that a traitor was leaking info on the Potters to LV