LID!Snape rides again (was: High Noon for OFH!Snape)

[Neri]

No: HPFGUIDX 150012

> 
> Betsy Hp:
> I did some massive cutting and snipping to try and draw together all 
> the statements that, to my mind, point out a huge weakness in your 
> theory, Neri.  And that is the use of magic to subvert or replace 
> actual human feelings.  Snape cannot feel *actual* remorse, it must 
> be of a magical variety.  Harry cannot have his own sense of 
> responsibility and justice, magic must have put it there.  There's 
> no such thing as real loyalty, just magically Unbreakable Vows.  
> Frankly, I think you're arguing for the antithesis of what JKR is 
> writing.
> <snip>

Neri:
I think you are missing my point. JKR doesn't use magic to replace
feelings, but she definitely uses magic to represent moral values.
Lily's Ancient Magic represents Love as a feeling, but also the
sacrifice of a mother for her son as a moral value. Petunia's pact
represents responsibility to kin. The UV represents commitment. The
Fidelius represents loyalty.

Moral values are feelings themselves, but they are more than that. The
magical power that JKR gives them symbolizes the RL power that these
moral values have to affect and constrain both ourselves and others.
Why can the UV kill you if you break it? Because it symbolizes extreme
commitment. The RL "magic" of moral values is that they can constrain
us even, in a sense, against our will.

Remorse is a feeling, but it's also a moral value. People can feel
remorse against their will. Their "better self", or what Dr. Freud
termed their "super ego" practically forces it on them. If they insist
on denying it they might cause themselves real harm. The Life Debt, I
suspect, is the Potterverse magical representation of remorse. It
forces itself on Snape the same way that RL remorse can "force" itself
on us. The fact that throughout the series Snape repeatedly fails in
repaying his Debt strongly suggests that he still denies his remorse. 

Snape seems to treat the Debt as a mechanistic magic – if he just
manages to repay it he'll be free and can choose Voldemort's side
again. This mistake is similar to the mistake that Voldemort himself
probably did when using Harry's blood. He treated Lily's protection as
a mechanistic thing and put it into his own blood to protect himself.
But Dumbledore's gleam of triumph hints that this was a mistake.
Dumbledore understood that, since Lily's blood protection actually
stands for Love, in the end it must in some way (that we don't know
yet) enforce its power on Voldemort. In a similar way Dumbledore
understood that, since the Life Debt stands for Remorse, Snape will
never succeed in repaying it without denouncing Evil. 


> Pippin:.
> Dumbledore, AKA the epitome of goodness, sends Harry to the 
> Dursleys and locks Sirius up at  GP.   James, the progenitor of 
> this famous life debt, makes Snape's life hell for years on end, 
> rushes into danger to save his skin, then goes right back to 
> hexing Snape whenever he gets the opportunity. Are you going 
> to say that they're arbitrarily schizoid too? 
> 

Neri:
I'm certainly not saying that JKR doesn't have some complex characters
with sometimes conflicting feelings and actions, but none of them gets
even close to the paradoxes of DDM!Snape. 

Moreover, none of your above examples was introduced as a solution to
a major mystery. An author is certainly allowed to introduce some
conflicts in her characters now and then, but when she springs on us
an arbitrarily conflicted character as the solution for a major
mystery, this is when I say "deus ex machina!" and put the book down
in disgust. Of, course, I don't expect *you* to agree with that <g>,
but until now JKR has never stooped to such means. 

> Pippin:
> Why should it be so hard to understand that for JKR's characters,
> and maybe even for JKR herself, lives are a much bigger deal than
> feelings? There's nothing artificial or inconsistent about that, it's
> just a different set of values.

Neri:
But if so, how do you explain Snape stopping the Occlumency lessons
because of, as Dumbledore himself admits, his feelings about James?
How do you explain Snape refusing even to hear Sirius' story before he
turns both him and Lupin in to the dementors for a fate worse than
death? The view of Snape as a person who does not care about feelings,
only about saving lives, simply doesn't work with the canon. 

It's James who is the consistent example of valuing lives over
feelings. Even when he bullies Snape he uses harmless jinxes in
response to Snape's potentially lethal curse. He saves Snape's life
despite (or maybe because) the feelings between them. And Dumbledore,
who knew James well, ensures Harry that James would have spared
Peter's life too.

> Magpie:
> Leaving aside the fact that it's hard for me to see how a Snape who
is mean 
> and bitter but also tormented by guilt is "schizoid" or arbitrary,
people in 
> the books don't seem to think it's so mysterious.  In the first book
Quirrel 
> says, "Oh he does [hate you]," said Quirrell casually, "heavens yes.
 He was 
> at Hogwarts with your father, didn't you know?  But he never wanted you 
> dead."  (He hates you, but doesn't want you dead.)
Neri:
Oh, I don't see "hates you, but doesn't want you dead" as schizoid.
Quite normal, actually. I'm sure most of us (certainly myself) have
several people that they hate but don't want dead. But Quirrell
doesn't even begin to describe here the paradox that is DDM!Snape. He
doesn't mention that Snape owes his life to James, that he revealed
the prophecy to Voldemort, that he's supposed to feel so much remorse
over this that even 15 years after the case Dumbledore had trusted him
completely, that he stopped the Occlumency lessons and AK'ed
Dumbledore after saving his life and taking a UV to kill him,
supposedly because of some extremely stupid mistake although he's also
supposed to be that hotshot secret agent.


> Magpie: 
> And then Dumbledore elaborates when Harry asks him about just this:
> 
> "Funny how people's minds work, isn't it?  Professor Snape couldn't
bear 
> being in your father's debt...I do believe he worked so hard to
protect you 
> this year because he felt that would make him and your father quits.
 Then 
> he could go back to hating your father's memory in peace...."
> 

Neri:
Well, even Dumbledore admits it's funny, and it gives Harry headache,
and this is after just *one* book. After six books of accumulating
paradoxes, DDM!Snape gives me headaches too.

The simple fact is that no other character of JKR is nearly so
contradicting and conflicted as DDM!Snape. He'd be grossly atypical of
her character writing.


Neri