[HPforGrownups] Re: Logical Thinking versus Intuitive Thinking

[rebecca]

No: HPFGUIDX 150025

 Kathryn Jones <kjones at ...> wrote:

>>     As a result of a related thread on another list, I am curious
> to
>> know what the opinions are about how JKR presents logical rational
>> thought on the part of some of her characters and the intuitive,
>> instinctive thought of others.  Snape is used in the books to
>> demonstrate logical progressive thinking, taking information in,
>> relating it to other information, and spitting out an answer.
>>
<snipped Crabbe, Goyle, Hermoine, James, Sirius etc examples>

>>     Is there a message in this? Will any of it relate to the final
>> resolution? Does she prefer one form of thought or reasoning from
>> another, or does she find a place for all? How does Dumbledore fit
> into
>> the scheme of things?  Is he a consummate Gryffindor or
> chessmaster?
>> More importantly, does anybody care:-)

> Marianne:
>
<snipped>

>I'd be willing to bet that JKR's not trying to say that intuitive
> thinkers are better than rational thinkers or the reverse. I think
> that, if she intends a message at all, it is that a person is best
> off if they can balance the rational and the intuitive within
> themselves.
>
> It seems to me that she sometimes puts characters into one camp or
> the other and then reveals the occasional weakness of these
> characters when they stick to either the logical or the emotional.

<snip>
>
> What all this means is anyone's guess.  Maybe the end result will be
> that Harry will find a way to use the strengths, intuitive or
> rational, of his allies to defeat Voldemort, rather than he himself
> having to be the one to blend the two together.
.
Rebecca:

I think what you have posed are terrific questions too, KJ. I particularly 
am interested in the fundamental philosophy surrounding the HP series, and 
enjoy discussing that far more than any theory, including the Snape 
addiction I'm sure I share with others on the list. :)  However, I don't 
necessarily think when JKR is developing her plans and characters that she 
predicates their development on logical vs intuitive thinking, but their 
role in the plot she's trying to develop.  What I mean by this is in fiction 
of this genre, you inevitably have the hero and his helpers and the 
antagonist and his supporters, and those characters and their developments 
are influenced by the values and virtues held by the hero and antagonist 
respectively. The characters develop predicated on those and the plot 
elements.

IMO, JKR's writing of these books and characters are influenced by 
philosophy moreso than religion, unless one applies those religious beliefs 
to life after death.  Both rational and intuitive thinking are part of 
philosophies enspoused by John Locke, Aristotle, Immanuel Kant, Rene 
Descarte and many others. Ultimately without dissecting each character too 
much (getting "too far into the weeds", as some of my other Potterhead 
friends say), JKR's Dumbledore sets the philosophy for the books with 
several key phrases, all which I believe are related to the death vs the 
quest for immortality theme which leads to:

-The philosophy of living a full and happy life and accepting that death, to 
the well-organized mind, is but the next great adventure  ( DD, the Potters, 
and Sirius' deaths vs the Hogwarts ghosts and LV)
- Accepting and understanding love cause us to act and make choices which 
exemplify love especially when made in the best interests of others and not 
in ourselves (Lily's sacrifice, Harry's saving of Fleur's sister in GoF, 
etc)
- Having full and meaningful relationships, like friendships, with others 
allows us to develop in the most important ways and help instill values in 
us which make life worthwhile and meaningful  (which is why there's still 
hope for Draco - Crabbe and Goyle are lost without him now, as they appear 
to genuinely *like* Draco for who he is)
- Evil is a path we choose as a matter of free will and our choices matter 
more than than who we were born to be (DD's statement to Fudge  regarding 
the "superiority" of purebloods and wizards in GoF, along with the CoS 
mention to Harry that our choices define who we are)
- Prophecy does not eliminate free will or choice (DD's conversation with 
Harry about the consequences of our action being so diverse that the future 
is a very difficult thing to predict, unless someone chooses to act on a 
prophecy)

I could go on and on with these examples and you'd recognize each one of 
them.

I noted KJ's evaluation of Hermoine, for example and to show what I mean by 
the aforementioned paragraphs wish to add that Hermoine is *ambitious*. 
Ambition is a virtue when in moderate amounts - and inevitably leads to new 
and exciting innovations whether the thinking be intuitive or rational. 
Innovation can then be defined as the output of imagination fueled by 
ambition.  Compare Hermoine's moderated ambition with LV, whom Ollivander 
states in PS/SS did "great, but terrible things", and those things were 
fueled by his over-arching ambition to be the greatest wizard in the world, 
at all costs. Hermoine, with her ambition to be the best at her schoolwork, 
still supports her friends and remains loyal to them, making choices in 
their best interests and reacting and thinking with bravery and courage. In 
this regard, are Hermoine's choices and thinking rational or intuitive? 
It's an interesting conundrum, isn't it? Couple that with Marianne's point 
about Hermoine's dismissal of Luna's more intuitive thinking - while it's 
true she did so for most of OoP, Hermoine also learns to accept Luna and 
respect her for what she is *as a result of Luna's choices and actions*. Is 
that acceptance rational or intuitive on Hermoine's part?

Rebecca, who loves philosophy and hopes she hasn't annoyed you all with 
discussing it