Lily' sacrifice v James' sacrifice WAS: Perfect Lily

[Renee]

No: HPFGUIDX 150082

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "annemehr" <annemehr at ...> wrote:
>
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "dumbledore11214"
> <dumbledore11214@> wrote:
> >
> > > > Alla:
> > > > 
> > >  
> > > > But  the thing that I find the most bothersome in as you said 
> > > > Sherry " bad father/holly mother" cliche is JKR differentiating 
> > > > between James's sacrifice and Lily's sacrifice in her July 2005 
> > > > interview.
> <snip> 
> > He chose to stand up and fight as a hero and if he knew that he is 
> > going to lose against Voldemort, he in my book chose heroic death in 
> > order to give his wife and son at least small chance to escape.

Renee:
Yes, I see what you mean now, but Voldemort's offer makes the
difference, as Annemehr also points out below.

 
> Annemehr:
> I wonder if it makes sense to include Voldemort's point of view. 
> Meaning, James died at Voldemort's AK because James did not run away
> *and* Voldemort intended to kill him.  Lily, on the other hand, died
> at Voldemort's AK because Lily did not run away, yes, but Voldemort
> originally did *not* intend to kill her. I think that's what JKR meant
> by saying *Voldemort* gave her a choice (which is an added ingredient
> beyond James's and Lily's own choices).
> 
> In other words, James and Lily were equally brave and selfless;
> however, Lily was in a different circumstance which made the effect of
> her sacrifice different.
> 

Renee:
James was not in a position to strike a "bargain" with Voldemort, as
Vodemort didn't make him any offers. Lily was. She was offered her
life, but instead of accepting it she suggested an exchange: her life
for Harry's. By killing her, Voldemort accepted the exchange. But then
he tried to kill Harry,  too, despite the bargain. That was cheating,
and therefore the Killing Curse rebounded. I'm aware this sounds a bit
mechanistic, and not everyone here likes this sort of mechanics, but
it would explain the difference between James's sacrifice and Lily's. 

In a way, this is comparable to what we find in Lewis's Narnia series,
though it doesn't work precisely the same way. Aslan offered the White
Witch his life in exchange for that of the traitor Edmund, calling on
the Deep Magic from the beginning of Time. But Aslan was innocent, and
therefore his sacrifice, as he explained later, triggered a Deeper
Magic that undid his death. I suspect the Ancient Magic of Lily's
sacrifice works in a related way.   

Renee