The Huge overreactions from a five minute time span

[juli17 at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 150182

 


Julie:
>> <snip> James isn't GOOD and Snape  isn't BAD (especially if he 
turns out to be DDM), just as very few people in  the real world are 
GOOD or BAD but a mix of both positive and negative  traits and 
tendencies. <snip> <<

Joe: 
Now here I have  to disagree with the good/bad issue. For one I think 
there are a number of  good people in the world and I think there are 
a number of bad people in the  world as well. Now are there any 
totally flawed or totally perfect, no  probably not.
 
Julie:
Right, I meant no one is wholly good or bad. But based on their  overall
actions we can classify them as good or bad. Clearly Voldemort is a
bad person, as is Umbridge, and Bellatrix (though she might be  able
to cop an insanity plea), and Peter (though he may pull through  with a
good act and save Harry--that life debt thing--it won't really balance  out 
his dozen plus murders and assorted other crimes). 

Joe:
Snape is almost certainly a bad person. Note, I'm not saying he is  
on Voldemort's side. However you don't add up his actions that we 
know  of and get the sum of a good person. James was a good man who 
has had some  of his teenage errors blown way out of proportion. I 
would also like to say  that I don't think Snape's jinking of James 
and others are part of his  character issue. I have a feeling that it 
happened all the time in a school  divided by Houses and that somewhat 
encouraged rivalries. Add into that  picture that Snape and James were 
what the other more than likely most  disliked.
 
Julie:
The problem with judging Snape is that we really don't *know* the 
entire sum of his actions. We know he was greasy and unpopular 
in school and probably hexed kids (so did James though), we know
he joined the Death Eaters and almost certainly does have blood
on his hands (whether by direct killing or by brewing  potions/poisons
that brought about suffering and/or death of Voldemort's enemies--
it's really much the same). We also know he has some responsibility
in the Potters' deaths. And we know he's verbally abusive to his 
students. 
 
That's the tally on the bad side. But we don't know the tally on  the
good side, which could include protecting the students from physical
harm, saving Harry more than once, spying for Dumbledore for 14
years at great risk to himself, saving Dumbledore from the first 
horcrux curse and two other students from Draco's misdirected
curses/poisons, and so on.
 
Then there are the things that are completely ambiguous, such as
why Snape killed Dumbledore. To rid himself of a hated  oppressor,
to return to Voldemort triumphant, to save himself, or to save the
lives of Harry and Draco and the rest of the students? We don't
know about Snape and Lily's connection, if they have one. We  don't
know the whole story of the prank. We don't know all of  Snape's
family connections, which may or may not be relevant. We don't
even know if Snape really helped kill Emmaline Vance, or if he
helped hide her. 
 
Yes, I'm going off into speculation area here, but the point is that  we
are likely to learn more about Snape's actions and motives in Book
7 (most certainly why he killed Dumbledore on the Tower) and there
is more than enough uncertainty about him for the scale of good 

versus bad to tip either way when it comes to Snape. IMO, anyway.  

kchuplis:
>> <snip> We have no idea how much  bias colors a pensieve memory.
And seeing anything in isolation can be  deceiving. I really can't
see everyone calling James a great guy (and  everyone HAS except
Snape) if he was really as big of a git all the time as  the pensieve
scene showed. <snip> <<

Joe:
Thanks, I  thnk you put it better than I did. You don't get almost
universally loved by  being horrible. You can get that way having made
a few mistakes though. 


 
Julie:
I agree that seeing something in isolation doesn't give the whole 
picture. Certainly there was a long history of enmity between James
and Snape, even though they were only fifteen. However, there is 
no bias, and no perspective shown in the Pensieve scene. It is a
completely objective account of what happened, per JKR. Which
makes sense, as we observed the Marauders in conversation even
when Snape was a good distance away. So James and Sirius really
acted that badly, and it wasn't Snape's hatred of them coloring his
memory. 
 
Julie
(Who thinks putting memories in a Pensieve to view them would be
fascinating, even if it would no doubt alter some of  my long-cherished
memories, since we humans have notoriously subjective recall!)
 


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