CHAP DISC: HBP 13, The Secret Riddle

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 150203

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Jen Reese" <stevejjen at ...> wrote:
>
> CHAPTER DISCUSSIONS: Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, Chapter
> 13, The Secret Riddle
> 
> ...
>  
>  
> Questions:
>  
> 1. What reaction did you have to Hermione, Ron and Dumbledore 
> refusing to talk to Harry about his theory that Draco was behind the 
> incident with Katie?
>  

bboyminn:

One of the great things about these Chapter Discussions is that we all
get to express our opinions on a common experience. Again, and I know
your getting tired of hearing it, I am reminded of the blind men
examining the elephant; they are each right, but they are all wrong.
Of course, that doesn't imply that every opinion in this group is
wrong, just multiple and varied, and that's what makes it interesting.

I don't think Ron and Hermione were refusing to believe Harry. They
both knew that Draco was up to no good because Draco is always up to
no good. So, they accept that Draco is up to something, there
objection is a matter of degree. They accept that Draco is up to
something, but they can't quite let themselves believe that Draco has
become a full-fledged Death Eater and in intimately in league with
Voldemort. They don't think Draco is that smart, and they don't think
Voldemort is that dumb; even though, in a way, both are true.

As far as Dumbledore, I will only speak to my impression. I get the
sense that Dumbledore intends to say that he knows and is dealing with
it. Yet, he does a pretty poor job of conveying this to Harry. He
takes, very much, a don't trouble yourself, the adults are handling it
attitude, and that does a great disservice to both Harry and
Dumbledore. Once again, Dumbledore is /saving/ Harry from information,
saving him from being burdened with /knowledge/. Yet, that 'saving',
as it always happens, is the very thing that prevents Harry from
responding in the appropriate manner. A little explanation now and
then would go a long way.

I have two ideas about this tendency from Dumbledore. One is that
Dumbledore just assumes that others are operating at the same level of
genius that he is, and assumes that they understand unspoken
information. The other is that this is a caculated tendency that has
become somewhat ingrained in Dumbledore. He only tells people what
they need to know to accomplish the task at hand, and sometimes less. 

Unfortunately, that doesn't give them the resources they need to
recongise important and valuable information and occurrences when they
appear. Further, not having full information and a clear objective,
doesn't allow much room for innovation when things don't go according
to plan. If you only give your 'helpers' a very small view of the
world, then you can only expect very small responses from them. Small
responses rarely achieve great things, and clearly  great thing need
to be achieved.

> 2. Where do you think Dumbledore was over the weekend of Katie's 
> attack and why did Draco plan the attack when Dumbledore was away?
> 

bboyminn:

Well, I think we can assume that throughout this book, Dumbledore was
off gathering information. It seems that Dumbledore is always gone,
and it seems as if every trip is related to gathering information that
will help him and Harry understand and find both the Horcruxes and
Voldemort; the two being very much intertwined.


> 3. How do you think Dumbledore plans to stop Mundungus from 
> pilfering the Black family heirlooms?
>  

bboyminn:

I'm sure somehow Mundungus was able to rationalize his actions in his
own mind. I'm sure he convinced himself that Harry didn't want or need
all this 'junk' cluttering up his life. Of course, his reaction when
he met Harry outside the Three Broomsticks, shows us that his
rationalization was not complete; it was simply enough to convince him
to act. When he meets Harry, Mundungus clearly feels guilty. 

I suspect Mundungus has 'gone to ground' as they say. He has gone into
hiding, and desperately does not want to face Harry or Dumbledore's
wrath. I think that fear alone is enough to break down his
rationalized excuses, and keep him from stealing any more.


> 4. Phineas continues to play a role in HBP which is more active than 
> the other portraits in Dumbledore's office. ... Do you see JKR 
> giving Phineas a more important role in Book 7?
>  

bboyminn:

I don't think it is so much will he have a role, but whether that role
will be critical or significant. I don't think it will. Phineus is
related to Sirius, and has a protrait at the Black House and at
Hogwarts. That alone is enough to insure his role in the last book,
but I don't think he will act in an enhanced way, he will just
continue his role as it already is.


> 5. Dumbledore offers Harry his interpretation of why Merope did not 
> use magic to get the things she needed to survive. Do you think 
> Merope chose not to perform magic after Riddle, Sr. left her, or 
> that she was incapable of doing so?
>  

bboyminn:

I think Tonks was our first clue as to 'state of mind' affecting
magical characteristics. This was the clue that this was possible. I
agree with others that Merope was in a state of heart-broken despair.
She was not just feeling a little depressed. I think this is reflected
in her selling the Slytherin Locket for such a paltry sum. At that
point she had given up on life, and only need enough money to get
through her child's birth. I don't think her despair allowed he to see
the future beyond that.

So, I think the dark cloud of utter despare broke her will. If you've
ever been in such or a similar dark cloud, you know that simple tasks
become next to impossible. So, I think she lack the will to do magic,
which is far more than simply not being willing to do magic.

> 6. Just out of curiosity, we never learned what happened to 
> Caractacus Burke. Any speculation?
>  

bboyminn:

I would have assumed that Burke either retired or died a natural
death. Though others have pointed out (I think) that Dumbledore had a
memory of Burke's, which would imply that he was still alive. So, now
I suspect he either sold his protion of the business and retired, or
he became a retired silent partner in the enterprise. 


> 7. JKR made a statement prior to HBP that we would know more about 
> the 'circumstances of Riddle's birth'. Was there anything about his 
> birth or life in the orphanage that surprised you or was it pretty 
> much the story you were expecting?
>  

bboyminn:

I think I was totally open to whatever came; I had no preconceived
notions. I was surprised that the orphanage was so nice. I expected a
very Dickens Oliver Twist stlye orphanage. While this place was plain,
it was clear the staff treated the orphans kindly and tried to do
their best. 

It was a little scary to me with regards to young Tom though. It was
clear he was already a bit twisted. I shuttered when Tom commanded
Dumbledore to 'tell the truth' and the way he greedily wanted a wand.


> 8. Why do you think Dumbledore drew attention to the fact that Harry 
> was 'possibly [ ] feeling sorry for Lord Voldemort?' 
> 

bboyminn:

I think it was Dumbledore subtly (as usual) showing Harry how he
differed from Voldemort. In the previous book, we found Harry feeling
sorry for Snape. In this book, we find him feeling sorry for
Voldemort. It show that Harry has compassion and empathy, two things
that are sadly and greatly lacking in Voldemort. I'm sure this is
important, but I can't imagine how this whole 'love' angle is going to
 play out in the final resolution of the story.


> 9. After learning Merope died rather than live for her son, Harry 
> expressed anger that she made a poor choice compared to Lily, 
> who 'didn't have a choice'. Dumbledore corrected him gently, saying 
> Lily *did* have a choice. Why do you think Harry didn't believe Lily 
> had a choice when he heard the memory in POA of Voldemort telling 
> her to 'step aside'?
> 

bboyminn:

Lily did have a choice. As I've said before, Voldemort had his
objective in sight, and Lily was just a minor annoyance. Kill her, not
kill her, it didn't matter, he had Harry and that was his primary
focus and objective.

That said, neither I nor Harry could imagine that any mother would
ever make such a choice. They would always die defending their
children. So, the fact that Lily had only one ACCEPTABLE choice
doesn't mean that she literally had only one choice. She could have
been a coward and stepped aside, and then she may or may not have
lived. But 'may or may not' is a far better chance of life than
absolutely 'not'.


> 10. Dumbledore seems to have an ongoing battle with young boys not 
> using the proper etiquette of referring to teachers as 'Professor' 
> or 'Sir'.  What did you think about the way Riddle talks to 
> Dumbledore compared to how Harry talks to Snape, erm, Professor 
> Snape?
>  

bboyminn:

This could have some deeper meaning in the story. For example, it
could have an indirect corrolation to Harry feeling sorry for
Voldmort. Dumbledore is trying to teach that all people have good in
them, and they still deserve your respect even if you don't like them.

On the other hand, Dumbledore is teaching a universal lesson that
every schoolboy has drilled into him; showing tokens of respect for
authority. I suspect there isn't a schoolboy alive who hasn't had a
hundred reminders to address people with respect.


> 11. Harry is surprised to see Dumbledore set the wardrobe on fire. 
> Why did Dumbledore choose to show a boy whose 'magic had run away 
> with him' such a spectacular and destructive-looking demonstration? 
> 

bboyminn:

Young Tom seems pretty confident in his secret and special powers. He
can hurt people, he can control people, he can 'do' things, he can
command the truth from people, and he can talk to snakes. I think
Dumbledore is pointing out to young Tom that he has a lot more to
learn. I also think it is note worthy that Dumbledore created the
illussion of fire rather than actual flames. When Dumbledore stops the
flames, the wardrobe is undamaged; everything is normal.

Somehow knowing that Tom has his box of trophies, Dumbledore
threatened the things the Tom valued the most. When you are that poor,
even small things like stones, slips of paper, and other worthless
trinkets become your treasure. I very much think Dumbledore was trying
to subtly intimidate Tom.


> 12. As Harry leaves the office he notices the ring is gone and 
> wonders whether the mouth organ Riddle had stowed in the cardboard 
> box might be of importance. Dumbledore beams at him and says, "very 
> astute Harry, but the mouth organ was only ever a mouth organ." Was 
> there any reason Dumbledore answered Harry's question so 
> cryptically? And why was he pleased to hear Harry say that? On a 
> side note, do you think that was a JKR message to fans? :)
> 

bboyminn:

Again, I respond to my underlying impression of what I saw. I think
Dumbledore it please to see that Harry is 'getting it'. That Harry is
starting to think the way Dumbledore is trying to teach Harry to
think. Harry's not quite there yet, but he is on the right track.

Dumbledore wants to teach Harry that Voldemort placed great emphasis
on the power of places and things. That places and things that are
significant to him hold the clues to finding and destroying the
Horcruxes. 

Again, we are seeing Dumbledore annoying subtility. I have always said
that Revelation is a far better teacher than Explanation, and
Dumbledore seems to subscribe to a similar philosophy. The one thing
he forgets is that occassionally a little explanation goes a long way
toward revelation.

As I said above, I don't know if Dumbledore's tight-lippedness is an
artifact of his level of genius; he simply can't comperhend life on
the low level that most people live it, or whether he is afraid that
too much information is a dangerous thing. In some ways he is right,
too much information is dangerous if it is held by the wrong people,
but of all the people, Harry certianly needs more information than
most. I see Dumbledore and the other adults around Harry leaving him
wholely unprepared for the task ahead. I hope Harry sees it as well,
and starts long hard training to improve his skill in all the areas he
needs.

Yes, in the end 'love may conquer all'; but from Harry's immediate
perspective, that is not a practical approach to anything.

For what it's worth.

Steve/bboyminn

PS: 
Has anyone noticed when they are about to send a post at the groups
website, that there is a drop-down box just below the text window that
allows you to select the language you are posting in? So what does
that do? Is it literal translation into the selected language, or just
character conversion? It's something I never noticed before.