The Huge overreactions from a five minute time span.

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 150212

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > I totally agree.  There's nothing in canon to suggest Snape was
> > ever a fluffy bunny. 
> > <snip>
 
> >>Alla:
> I will rephrase it in order to help you not to confuse my
> speculation with animagus theories. I am speculating that Severus
> Snape was not completely innocent "human being" in his interactions
> with Marauders.

Betsy Hp:
Sorry, I should have stated that I was being tongue-in-cheek up 
there. <g>  I'm quite amused by all the energy that goes into 
arguing that Snape is not a fluffy bunny, not a teddybear, not a 
Saint, etc.  Especially since I've never seen anyone *make* that 
particular argument.  At least, not here.

No, Snape wasn't entirely innocent.  But that doesn't mean that he 
deserved to be so humiliated, or that James, and his little friends 
too (yes I'm looking at you, Lupin!), were not behaving badly.

> >>Alla:
> Let me say it again, put the GoF train incident into pensieve from
> the moment Draco gets hexed and Draco would be innocent victim of
> big bad Gryffindors and it would be one again six....  Yeah, big   
> bad bullies they are, no matter that Harry is recovering from      
> horrible ordeal and the last thing anybody wants to hear is Draco 
> threats and mockery of Voldemort's victim.

Betsy Hp:
But I *do* think the Gryffindors behaved badly here and that Draco 
and friends did *not* deserve to be physically attacked as they 
were.  It doesn't mean I think Draco is a sweet, innocent, fluffy 
little bunny.  It does mean that I've never been a fan of 
overwhelming force and attacking from behind.  (Unless we're talking 
actual war, in which case, damn the torpedoes, etc., etc., <g>)

So while context helps, it doesn't guarantee everyone will see a 
scene the same way.


> >>Kemper:
> > Not all D&D geeks are quad/paraplegics.  Many of them have      
> > working hands and legs that can easily clench or kick... make-do 
> > wands for the Muggle youth.

> >>Nora:
> Not the same.  The D&D geek may have fists, but I generally doubt 
> he knows how to fight--and if we're going with the athletic jocks 
> vs. the nerdy geeks paradigm, he's almost certainly at a profound
> physical disadvantage.
> That's just not the case with wands; instead we have conditions of
> magical power and skill taking the place of the physical.

Betsy Hp:
I think it's safe to say the Snape was more than a match for either 
James or Sirius.  There's a reason the two of them went after him 
together, especially since I'd imagine both boys would describe 
themselves as decent or honorable.  Sirius knew James would need the 
backup, and so he provided it.  As the reader is shown, Sirius was 
right.  One on one, Snape would have overpowered James eventually.  

> >>Kemper:
> > I think most if not all nerd/geeks are/were passive-aggressive
> > types.  I haven't met one that was assertive to their tormentors.

> >>Nora:
> The point is then, I think, that the passive-aggressive mode of
> response can be just as unpleasant and deserving of scorn as the
> other.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Snape wasn't really passive-aggressive in this scene though, was 
he?  I'd say he was pretty darn aggressive.  Which is why it took 
the two boys to successfully hold him down.  Moreover, I think this 
is the reason James and Sirius went so far with Snape.

This scene is one of escalation.  James didn't immediately whip 
Snape into the air and rip off his clothes, he gradually built up to 
that final attack.  Because Snape would not submit; would not stay 
down.  And I suspect, this has been true of Snape since he first 
climbed aboard the train to Hogwarts.

I think James and Sirius were probably "good natured" bullies.  They 
wanted their alpha status recognized, but they probably didn't abuse 
it.  Much.  I base that on McGonagall's misty-eyed remembrance of 
them.  Only there was one boy that wouldn't give them their due.  A 
greasy little oddball of no consequence but an unfortunate level of 
magical skill.

I think there was a negative sort of alchemy that occured when 
Sirius and James clashed with Snape, and I think it brought out the 
very worst in the two boys.  Even after James is blessed with the 
special magic of Lily's love <g> he *still* fought with Snape.  And 
was ashamed enough of it to hide it from her.

[Ironically, I think this is yet another area where Snape and Harry 
are like peas in a pod.  Harry isn't very good at the staying down 
thing either, as seen in his very first Potions class.]

So Snape, in his refusal to submit, goaded James and Sirius into 
ever more cruel acts of bulling until finally Sirius nearly killed 
Snape.  This is the reason I shudder to think what might have 
happened if James and Sirius had gotten Snape alone somewhere.  Not 
that I think either James or Sirius would actually *think* about 
seriously injuring Snape, but what might they have done to force 
Snape to stay down? You know, before their thinking kicked in?

Betsy Hp