Young James v Older James WAS: Re: The Huge overreactions .

[Ceridwen]

No: HPFGUIDX 150231

PAR: 
> there is the problem of Peter.  "Every time James made a 
> particularly difficult catch, Wormtail gasped and applauded.  After 
> five minutes of this,...." There is at least a possible suggestion 
> here that Peter is under the influence of something on the order of 
> a love potion. 

Ceridwen:
I can't see Peter being under the influence of a potion (love, fan, 
whatever) here.  For one thing, when did he take it?  The memory 
begins during the last portion of a long written exam.  The students 
get up to leave when they're done.  Snape doesn't go wandering out of 
the hall *with* MWPP, so when did he slip the potion to Peter?

For another thing, Peter as an adult comes off as acting similar.  He 
fawns and blathers over LV in the graveyard, he cuts off his own hand 
so LV can live.  The young Peter acts no differently, with 
adjustments for age.  He fawns and salivates over James's prowess.

PAR:
> And who is our "potions master"?  Potioning peter 
> during OWLS would be something a "DE" groupie might do.  And if so, 
> the levicorpus event takes a slightly different meaning.  Not 
nicer. 
> I agree with Ceridwen that James wasn't perfect and that his 
> behavior here is hardly admirable.  But it might be more 
> understandable if it's in direct response to something else.

Ceridwen:
And how did Snape potion Peter during a monitored test?

James and Snape have a history going back to well before this 
particular memory.  We have this from Sirius and Remus.  James hated 
the Dark Arts, Snape knew a lot about them as a first-year.  Lily 
says that James goes around hexing people, and Sirius says that James 
continued to hex Snape after this incident, though he was careful not 
to let Lily find out.  Remus said something along the lines of them 
having been... ?a bit over the top?.. or something.  Sirius as an 
adult blythely admits that Snape was just some twit who deserved to 
be hexed. Alla mentioned that there was a history here, and by canon 
evidence, there was.  Nothing needed to happen during the O.W.L.s to 
bring up any righteous anger.  The case is presented objectively per 
JKR as Pensieve memories are objective records.  Sirius was bored, 
James did something about it.

PAR:
> I don't think it's a service to Harry to paint his parents perfect 
> (either one of them) either.  But neither is it a service to paint 
> James as evil or seriously bad.  Cultural norms change both in time 
> and space.  What was a "serious hazing" is now something that 
> justifies calling the police. I think that we are meant to have an 
> assumption about James and Sirius here, just as we were meant to 
> have one about Peter prior to the revelation in the Shack in POA.  
> JKR is good about making us think one thing and then revealing the 
> actual facts later.

Ceridwen:
James is being painted as a juvenile-acting... juvenile here.  He's a 
teenaged boy.  He's acting like a teenaged boy.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that cultural norms have changed and 
that's why so many people see more 'modern' problems, or at least tag 
them with more 'modern' names, in several areas of canon.  Sexual 
harassment for pantsing, which is definitely emasculation, but that 
term seems to have gone the way of the 'older' cultural norms.  
Or 'abuse' for 'strictness' in another world.  I could go off on a 
rant here about emasculating the human population, but I won't.  *g*

But, back to James being painted.  I don't think anyone would say, or 
has said, that James is evil.  Or that he was evil.  We all know what 
he grew up to do.  And we all seem to agree that the seeds of Hero!
James were present in Berk!James.  But that's no reason to start 
painting Snape as anything other, or worse, than James's adversary at 
Hogwarts, either.

PAR:
> I for one would like to see Lupin's memory of this same event and 
> any relevant things two days before and after.  It's too bad we 
> can't have James' or Sirius', but Lupin might provide some 
> perspective on just how bad (or not) James really was.

Ceridwen:
I think, based on Lupin's behavior in this particular scene, that 
you'll see more of the same.  If you start taking random memories 
from Lupin, you might see Snape starting something at a different 
time, too.  You could see the text of the book he's reading, and you 
might get a glimpse of what it's like to be there when a werewolf 
transforms.  The Pensieve memories are objective, so the only color 
on the events will be that placed by the viewer.

Ceridwen.