Draco as Victim in GoF (was: Re: The Huge overreactions...)

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 150319

>   Joe: 
> But we do know what he is, at least to a large degree. He is an 
> attempted murderer and responsible for Dumbledore's death. 

Magpie:
But "responsible" in a very secondary way. That's not a way of 
getting him off the hook for what he's done.  His not killing 
Dumbledore in the Tower isn't meaningless.  Snape killed Dumbledore, 
and Draco certainly had a hand in the situation, but when it came 
down to the choice of whether to kill or not Draco did not choose to 
kill and Snape did. 

Joe:
Let's be 
> honest here, Draco knew people would get hurt and most likely die 
> when he let the D.E.s in. The only thing he didn't like was 
Greyback 
> showing up. He reacted when Dumbledore mentioned he didn't think 
> Draco would let Greyback in where his friends lived, correct? He 
> might not want his friends being eaten but you can be fairly sure 
he 
> wouldn't bat an eye at one of the Trio being eaten.

Magpie:
I think he would bat an eye at it, actually.  Part of the theme of 
HBP is the difference between fantasy and reality, and talking the 
talk vs. walking the walk.  I'm not making him out to be admirable 
or a hero here.  I just really feel like it's an important plot 
point that he's not able to take this stuff casually when it comes 
down to the real thing.  That's also why I question the whole idea 
of him just being "a coward."  I'm not claiming he's brave, but what 
does that refer to, specifically?  He's got a helpless Dumbledore 
where he just has to point his wand and say the word--even if the 
word doesn't work.  But he doesn't.  So what is he afraid of?  A 
coward is someone showing ignoble fear in the face of danger and 
pain. Peter Pettigrew seems to me the best example of a coward--when 
push comes to shove he'll kill anybody to protect himself.  Draco is 
facing danger and pain if he doesn't kill Dumbledore, so what's 
holding him back?  If it's fear, fear of what, exactly, when the 
danger is weighted towards not killing him?  
    
>   Joe: 
> Or he can't do it himself. He is still just as responsible as he 
is 
> the one who let murderers in the school.

Magpie:
Yes, he is responsible for letting the DEs in the school.  But I 
think Dumbledore's last scene was dedicated to something significant 
to him (Dumbledore).  Again I think in my mind this comes back to 
the reality versus the fantasy.  I see his crimes as leading towards 
his understanding of the reality.  The other reading seems to stay 
in the mindset he had before.  One can argue that Sirius "knew Snape 
would get hurt and most likely die when he went to the Shack" and 
technically it's true, but no, I don't think it reality for Sirius.  

 
> Joe: 
> This even aussume that Draco can be redeemed. I know that now in 
the 
> oh so trendy how about a hug world that it seems everybody get 
more 
> chances than they deserve. Still there isn't anything that Draco 
can 
> do to be redeemed. Dumbledore will still be dead and Bill Weasley 
> will still me scarred.>    
> Can Draco help the Order against Voldemort? Oh I am certain he 
could. 
> Can he be redeemed? No, there are some things that you cannot make 
> amends for.

Magpie:
I am assuming that Draco CAN be redeemed because that's just true.  
I'm not assuming he WILL be.  What I was saying in that context was 
that if he is redeemed it will be a case of the present generation 
going forward in a better way.  It won't, imo, be about him being 
protected by Snape, because I don't think that's something that 
shows real learning.  Your reference the trendy "hug world," there's 
the equally trendy "I'm not afraid to judge who's bad and kill 'em!" 
world, both proudly represented on the list.  Obviously I'm more on 
the hug side because it reflects what I see, and I don't really buy 
all the tough talk judgments on the other side--and I would hope 
that if put in the same situation as Draco that most of the people 
who claim they'd kill those who deserve it without a second thought 
would be "cowards" too.  

Canonically, Draco has not done anything he can't make amends for, 
imo. I think Rowling carefully made sure of it--as she has done with 
all the kids of Harry's generation.   (Also, although I've been 
using the word redeemed, frankly I don't think making amends is that 
important anyway.  If someone changes their attitude and becomes a 
better person, that's more important than paying up some cosmic 
debt.  Holding out for people to make amends, imo, usually just 
means making yourself bitter because that's what you want to do.) 
The DEs have presumably murdered people in the past, but they did 
not murder anyone as a result of Draco letting them into Hogwarts. 
Dumbledore was murdered by someone already in Hogwarts.

But even if I didn't think this was a point the author was making, 
and something Dumbledore actually says in canon, I still don't agree 
that redemption becomes impossible after bad deeds. I think this is 
one of the main ideas of Christianity--though one that doesn't need 
a religious context for it to make sense.   Just as perhaps the one 
side sees the "huggy" types as interfering with victory for good, I 
see this attitude as interfering with victory for the good.  I don't 
think I'm a very loving person; my belief in the importance of 
compassion is very pragmatic.  You can be realistic while still 
being compassionate.  Peter Pettigrew, for instance, I don't think 
has much chance for redemption based on his attitude as expressed by 
his words and actions.  I don't think Draco is such a clear case 
yet.  Draco has never come across to me exactly the way he comes 
across to Harry (unlike with Peter).  So no, I don't think Draco's 
redemption is inevitable, but it seems counterproductive to assume 
it's impossible.  In fact, stating that there's no way he can make 
amends seems to put the problem more on the good side than Draco's.  
I wouldn't want any more enemies if I can avoid it.  Draco would 
have to want to change and make the effort.  But if the good side 
just decides they will not allow him to be forgiven no matter what 
he does, that's their problem.

Amiable Dorsai:
And all five Gryffindors knew in their bones where this was going,
knew that Draco was exulting over the return of evil so foul that few
dared speak its name.


Magpie:
Yes--and that's exactly what's going on.  The train hexing is a form 
of STFU.  It's not anybody feeling that their lives are in immediate 
danger from the three kids in their compartment.  

-m