Sportsmanship in Harry Potter

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 151740

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "horridporrid03"
<horridporrid03 at ...> wrote:

> Betsy Hp:
> ...edited...
> 
> [My favorite made up sport? That game in Ender's Game.  I mean, 
> how cool would that be to play?  Heck of lot cooler than getting 
> beaned by iron balls, IMO.]
> 

bboyminn:

HP fans may talk among themselves or let their minds wander freely
during this short diversion.

Ooooh! Your an Ender fan, may I say 'I love you'. I just finished the
books (all eight) for about the third or fouth time. I keep imagining
that in the future New!Peter will meet Bean's kids, or dare I hope,
maybe even Bean himself. I heard Orson Scott Card is suppose to be
publishing a continuation of the series soon; can't wait.



> ...edited...
> 
> > >>Magpie:
> > <snip>
> > ...edited... 
> > <snip>
> > Usually "good sportsmanship" seems to just get thrown around to   
> > describe how other people are fighting terribly dirty. Generally 
> > whenever our guys are playing a game where they're just having fun 
> > it seems like it's supposed to be good sportsmanship, even when    
> > they're being tricky or trash talk later.
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> That's a continual problem in the Potterverse, IMO.  Like when the 
> twins complain about Slytherin's spying on the Gryffindor practice, 
> because that's just so not done, and then come running back to 
> report on what they found out *while spying on the Slytherin 
> practice*.  Or how it's just horrible that the Slytherins have such 
> good brooms, but isn't it great when Harry gets the best broom on 
> the market?  There's a bit of eating her cake and having it too, I 
> think, within the school competitions.
> 

bboyminn:

So, what you are saying is that they are acting exactly like teens all
over the world. I'm reminded of 'Malcom in the Middle'. Malcom and/or
Reese and/or Dewey will do the most outrageous things, and when Lois
gets on their case about it, the first thing they whine is "But it's
not fair". 

To quote Phineas Nigellus:
"Young people are so infernally convinced that they are absolutely
right about everything. ... No, like all young people, you are quite
sure that you alone feel and think, you alone recognise danger, you
alone are the only one clever enough to realise what the Dark Lord may
be planning — "

OK, it's not a perfectly applicable quote.

Rather than look at this as the author portraying life in some less
than perfect way, why not look at it as the characters acting exactly
like people their age act?


> > >>Magpie:
> > One of the hilarious things about GoF is that we're always        
> > encouraged to sympathize with Harry for being the underdog but     
> > Rowling just can't bring herself to have him lose at anything.
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> And that's another problem, IMO.  Harry never loses.  Not at any 
> sort of school competition, not ever.  GoF is just the most 
> egregious case.  But there's no way Harry can possibly be painted as 
> the underdog at Hogwarts.  ...
> 
> > >>Magpie:
> > He's still acting like he can't possibly win when he's in first    
> > place right out of the gate...
> > <snip>
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> And that's what keeps Harry likable, IMO.  He really does *see* 
> himself as the underdog, poor love.  ...
> 


bboyminn:

But Harry is the underdog and he does lose, and, to some extent, he
loses graciously. That's sportsmanship. In GoF, especially with regard
to the underwater task under discussion, Harry is well aware that he
lost, and he accepts his loss. He's not complaining at all, and is
somewhat embarassed not by losing, but by having taken the song
seriously. I think in that moment, he felt he deserved to lose, and he
 graciously accepted that Viktor and Cedric had beaten him. 

When the facts came out, and it became clear that Harry reached the
hostages with a clear lead, and the judges saw fit to award Harry
points for moral fiber, he also accepted that graciously. He knew
there was a limit to the quality of his win, and he accepted that. 

In the first task, Harry is aware that he had unusual help, and he
tried to even the contest by telling Cedric. That certainly seems like
 sportsmanship to me. I don't think he felt a great deal of guilt
about winning the Dragon task because he was aware that ALL the
champions had advance knowledge, and he did use an uniquely effective
method of getting past the dragons. Yes, some could say that Moody
told him what to do. But Moody specifically refrained from coming
right out and saying it; he let Harry discover the specifics he needed
from the general advice Moody gave. Further, Moody seemed to justify
it to Harry by saying, and rightly so, that the other Headmasters
would help their champions all they could.

In the final maze task, Harry is aware the Cedric beat him. He is
disappointed but accepts it. At that moment Cedric display good
sportsmanship by offering the Cup to Harry. Harry declines and offers
to take it together. Again, an act of good sportsmanship.

After Harry finds out the circumstances under which he won; that is,
Moody's assistance, Harry tries his best to refuse the Prize, not only
the prize of money, but the prise of winning. When he is forced to
accept the money, he gives it to Fred and George. Again, that looks
like good sportsmanship to me.

Harry is well aware that he did not win fair and square, but what can
he do about it? Everyone insists that Harry won by default. Harry
would rather not win at all, because he knows in his heart that he
truly did not win.

Now A_Svrin seems to be making the point that it was the judges who
displayed poor sportsmanship not the contestants. He doesn't agree
with my position, but I still say that the tournement was a test of
character as much as a test of knowledge, and that Harry displayed the
very character the judges were looking for. Consequently, I say the
points were awarded fairly and within the context of the tournement.  

To say that Harry never loses, is to say that he is completely unaware
of the nature of his wins. Harry knows full well that he had help that
gave him an unfair advantage, and he is fully aware that his victories
are hollow and flawed. If he gloated over those victories I would have
a problem, but Harry is very humble and modest about it, and that
carries a lot of weight with me.

Just more rambling.

Steve/bboyminn