Sportsmanship in Harry Potter

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 151847

> >>kchuplis:
> But what exactly is Harry supposed to do to avoid help? Stick his  
> fingers in his ears and say "LALALA I can't hear you!"? This makes 
> no sense to me to damn Harry with faint praise because he feels    
> guilty that people are forcing (yes, forcing) help on him. He does 
> not actively seek out help.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I'm not daming Harry with faint praise.  Actually, I'm giving him 
quite a bit of praise.  He's uncomfortable with the level of help 
he's getting.  That's an amazingly good thing.  Harry doesn't like 
cheating.  Fake!Moody cheats Harry to the cup anyway.  That makes 
Fake!Moody the bad guy.  (Though I'll point out that Harry does do 
the "lalala, I can't hear you" thing with Bagman.  So that was an 
option. <g>)

I'll say it again, Harry shows an amazing amount of personal 
strength (character if you will) in the fact that he doesn't become 
a James Jr. strutting about the school like he owns it.  It's 
*Harry's* strength that prevents that from happening.

> >>kchuplis:
> The judges behaving badly means the champions don't have an  
> opportunity to show good sportsmanship? I don't get that. The  
> champions all DID show sportsmanship. How were they prevented?    
> Please give an instance of them being bad sports.

Betsy Hp:
In the water event Harry made a choice that cost him the race.  He 
didn't protest that it was really scary down there, etc.  He was 
willing to be a good sport and live with losing the water event.  
And the judges took that moment away from him and made his sacrifice 
of no account.  They made it a gimmick.

It would have changed very little to have had Harry live with the 
fact that his choice cost him winning that particular race.  It 
wouldn't have killed him, and Fake!Moody would have cheated him to 
the cup in the end anyway.  So the plot wouldn't have been messed 
up.  But it would have made Harry's noble decision a noble decision, 
instead of a cutsie way of trying to give Harry his cake and have 
him eat it too.

There's a moment in OotP when Harry is confronting his somewhat ugly 
feelings when Ron gets the Prefect Badge.  I loved that moment.  It 
showed Harry thinking through some very real and tempting feelings 
of jealousy and entitlement.  He even brings up the fact that he's 
suffered, faced things Ron hasn't had to face.  I loved how Harry 
had the guts and the honesty to face his uglier emotions and wrestle 
with them and get to a point where he really does feel good about 
Ron being Prefect.

But then, Dumbledore takes that moment away.  Turns out Harry's 
uglier emotions were right.  He *is* better than Ron, and he really 
*should* have gotten the badge.  So all that thinking Harry did at 
the beginning of the book is moot.  He is the best, he is entitled, 
but thank you very much for playing.  (Again, it's amazing and shows 
a real core strength that Harry isn't adversly effected by this sort 
of thing.)

> >>Betsy Hp: 
> > <snip>
> > Though JKR does step in and makes sure Harry's team wins at     
> > quidditch.  Again.

> >>kchuplis:
> Oh curses. How dare she.

Betsy Hp:
Well, it's a bit boring. Which is a bit of curse, I guess.  And it's 
not that it's bad that Harry is an amazing quidditch player.  I'm 
not arguing for mediocrity at all.  

Actually, I think it's a nice touchstone for Harry's character.  
He's an amazing flyer, and it's all his, not a hand-me-down from 
Voldemort.  It's one thing in the Triwizard Tournament that is all 
his, too.  Harry learned the Accio spell with good old fashioned 
hard work.  And he totally earned the points he received.  (With the 
bonus of being a good sport and making sure Cedric was on even 
footing with everyone else.)

But it does bother me that Harry has to win any competition he 
enters.  If he'd lost the water event, if his team had lost the 
quidditch championship, it would have been more interesting.  It 
wouldn't have effected the over-arching plot at all, but it would 
have given Harry a bit more character depth to play with, IMO.

Plus, there'd have been the added bonus of not being predictable.

> >>kchuplis:
> <snip>
> Can you cite some really supportive evidence (aside from Colin)    
> where Harry is unduly loved and revered by students?)

Betsy Hp:
There's the "we got Potter!" chant when he gets sorted into 
Gryffindor in PS/SS.  There's Flitwick's fainting in PS/SS and 
Lockheart's glomping (and dare I say squeeing? <g>) in CoS.  There's 
the many girls asking him to the Yule Ball in GoF.  There's the 
hostility towards Hermione for "playing with his heart" in GoF 
(though that speaks more to his popularity throughout the WW).  
There's the size of the DA club in OotP.  And there's Romalda Vane 
and her crew in HBP.

> >>kchuplis:
> I think Harry is more than pointed at. He is often cut dead.       
> That's a Big Thing with anyone, let alone kids.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
In PS/SS Harry is cut dead after he loses all those points for 
smuggling Norbert.  But that never happens again.  Sure the 
Hufflepuff mafia goes sour on him for a few months in CoS, but 
they're Hufflepuffs, and the Gryffindors have his back.  And yes, 
the other houses are less than pleased when Harry's named a Champion 
in the Triwizard Tournament, but again, Gryffindor is all over him.  
(It's the loss of Ron that hurts Harry there.)  So, no I don't think 
Harry does suffer out and out ostracism (except for PS/SS).  Yeah 
there are some students that are against him, but there are always 
other students for him.

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > Evil killed his parents.  I'm not sure how this shows moral     
> > fiber on Harry's part.  I mean, yes it's good to reject evil,    
> > but it's not like it was a hard call on Harry's part.

> >>kchuplis:
> It is though. He could have thrown his lot in with say Draco and   
> had a much easier time of it through school.

Betsy Hp:
How?  How would befriending Draco have made Harry's life easier at 
school?  What on earth could Draco offer Harry that Harry doesn't 
already have?

> >>kchuplis:
> He could have accepted LV's first invitation.

Betsy Hp:
What invitation?

> >>kchuplis:
> <snip>
> Usually evil is a bit tempting.  Maybe it isn't hard to reject,    
> but that does come with a lot of pain much of the time.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I guess I don't see any time in the books where Harry could have 
chosen (or was even offered a chance to) follow Voldemort.  I don't 
recall Harry ever being tempted, ever considering, joining 
Voldemort's side.  I mean, yes that's a common path in the good vs. 
evil story line.  But it's not one Harry has had to face.  (I'm 
betting Snape is going to provide that part of the story line.  Or 
possibly Draco. Maybe both?)

And honestly, I'm not sure what Voldemort could have offered.  Even 
more fame?  A really super duper win?  I mean, Harry has it all when 
it comes to that sort of stuff.  The only thing I can think of is if 
Voldemort tried to claim he could bring back Sirius or the Potters 
or something. 

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > Who dislikes Hermione?  And for that matter, who dislikes
> > Hagrid?

> >>kchuplis:
> Errr. Didn't we just have a billion threads on how Hermione       
> doesn't have any girlfriends supposedly?

Betsy Hp:
Hermione doesn't have a best girlfriend.  But I'm not sure how that 
makes Harry being her friend some sort of moral choice on his part.  
Hermione isn't *hated* by her female peers.  She's just not their 
best bud.  She doesn't want to be.  But that doesn't make her or her 
friends social lepers by any means.

> >>kchuplis:
> <snip>
> Also, I believe he spends most of OoTP calling people to carpet on 
> Hagrid. He defends Hagrid immediately to Draco in SS/PS. He stands 
> by him no matter what.

Betsy Hp:
Except when it comes to actually taking Hagrid's class. <g>  But, 
again, I'm not seeing a moral choice here.  Befriending Hagrid 
doesn't cost Harry anything.  

> >>Betsy HP:
> > He's good, his friends are good, his enemies are bad,

> >>kchuplis:
> I'd say his enemies are a bit more than "bad". But that's just me.

Betsy Hp:
Exactly!  See, it's *easy* for Harry.  Compare that with say, Draco, 
who, if he does choose to side with Dumbledore will be going against 
his parents.  Now *that's* a difficult decision.  Siding with people 
you like against people you don't is not a hard call to make.

Actually, that's a really good reason for Snape to be DDM.  Because 
than Harry will have to put his cause ahead of his personal issues.

Betsy Hp