Sportsmanship in Harry Potter

[rtbthw_mom]

No: HPFGUIDX 151926

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "a_svirn" <a_svirn at ...> wrote:
>
>  Joe: But cheating wasn't incorporated in the rules. It can still 
be 
> done.
> >    
> >   Let me see if I can clear this up. You think that the judges 
> giving points is cheating even if it is in the rules(right?). By 
> definition though if it is in the rules it isn't cheating. Since 
we 
> have no idea what may or may not have been in the rules we can't 
> just say that those points we cheating.
> >    
> >   <snip>    
> >   Most major sports have traditions of trying to get around the 
> rules. In many cases these are some of the most "colorful" stories 
> in them. Still if you are caught you will be punished. 
> 
> a_svirn:
> And that's exactly what I meant when I said that cheating was 
> incorporated into the rules. Because you are *not* punished if you 
> are caught cheating in the tournament. You don't even get 
> reprimanded. You get a pat on your shoulder and an assurance that 
no 
> harm done – cheating is "traditional".  And indeed so it is – 
> everyone cheats. 
>
Pat here - delurking because I have a comment:
How do we know that anyone, if caught, goes unpunished?  I have no 
recollection of anything from canon that discusses this.  We are 
told that Madam Maxime is helping Fleur, but never shown it, 
although admittedly we see the effects (Fleur wasn't surprised by 
the dragons in the first task.)  We are also told that Karkaroff is 
helping Krum, but ditto - we're never shown it, just the effect that 
Krum is likewise not surprised.  We are also never shown Dumbledore 
helping either Cedric or Harry - the idea I got was that he was 'too 
noble' to engage in cheating - and that this was supposed to be a 
good thing.  It's only Crouch!Moody that does the cheating - and I 
think it's also unfair to assume that that's why Dumbledore added 
him to the faculty in Harry's fourth year.  The assumption (on may 
part, anyway) was that Moody was brought to Hogwarts because 
Karkaroff was going to be there, and K was known to be a former DE, 
so Harry might need extra protection.  We are shown at the end of 
GOF that DD didn't suspect that his old friend wasn't really who he 
thought he was (the intelligence of this is left up to the reader to 
decide.)  Moody *was not* brought to Hogwarts to help any champion 
cheat his way through the tournament!  At any rate, where I'm going 
with this is to dispute your statement that cheating is incorporated 
in the rules.  Everybody *is not* doing it - none of the Hogwarts 
staff is involved, except the afore-mentioned Crouch!Moody, who had 
his own agenda there, too (he wasn't interested in Harry winning for 
a good purpose, but to serve his master.)  Any help that was given 
Harry outside of Crouch!Moody's interference was given at Crouch!
Moody's behest - he got Hagrid to show Harry the dragons, he got 
Dobby to give Harry the gillyweed (and previously tried to get the 
information to Harry via Neville) and then in the third task, Crouch!
Moody did it himself.  I think that some distinction needs to be 
made here: I don't believe that cheating is *tolerated* but it is 
more or less expected (if only because it has happened in the past) 
and if the judges think they see evidence of it they turn a blind 
eye to it unless it should be blatently obvious.  This is implied, 
to me, in Bagman's statements to Harry. ("Of course nobody would 
know. . ." pardon me for not having the exact quote)

~Pat
(wondering if I made any sense at all. . .)