Sportsmanship/legitimacy

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 151927

> Magpie:
> Plus there's the other rule of one champion for each school. It's 
not just that Harry's name goes into the Goblet that's a problem, 
it's the fact that his name comes out of the Goblet since Moody
invented a fake school.  So Harry's the Champion of nothing, 
a school that doesn't exist.  

Pippin:
But do the judges have power over the magical contract  or is it in 
the sole discretion of the goblet? It appears they do not. That's
why everyone keeps saying that the goblet is impartial -- supposedly
none of the judges can influence it. Of course no magic is foolproof
and Crouch did find a way. But even his influence was limited -- he
couldn't make it choose Harry as the sole Hogwarts champion, which
would have been much more convenient for his plans. 

The goblet was not looking the other way at Crouch's cheating. It chose 
as impartially as it always did, but it had been confunded into thinking 
there was another wizarding school so that Harry, as the sole contestant 
representing that school, was sure to be picked.  

The rule about being seventeen was not part of the original rules of the 
contest. It had been agreed on by the judges but there was no way to 
program the goblet to reject anyone under seventeen.
That was why the age-line was needed. The judges could  have ruled that
Harry didn't have to compete, but IMO that wouldn't change the spell.
IIRC one character suggests that they just redo the selection process, and 
is told that the goblet is now extinguished and will not light again until it's 
time for the next contest. 

> 
> Pippin:
> 
> > In Harry's case, there was no way to let the Goblet know it had
> > been defrauded, and therefore presumably no way to keep it
> > from enforcing the penalties on Harry. Possibly they could have
> > called off the whole contest -- but how could Dumbledore be
> > sure that wasn't what the enemy wanted? 
> 
> Magpie:
> I'd think that even if the enemy did want that it would be a better 
thing to do than risking Harry's life, but everyone seems to be under 
the impression that Harry is, indeed, in the tournament because 
someone wants to kill him (though oddly people don't think of 
Voldemort being behind it as much as they should).  Ironically, I'm 
sure late in the year Rita Skeeter writes some article that seems to 
suggest Harry could get out of the tournament somehow, though I 
don't remember it now.
> 
> Of course, I also can't help but think how I would have gotten out of 
it if I were in it. Surely Harry could go through the motions without 
actually risking anything. 

Pippin:
I don't remember Rita Skeeter suggesting that Harry could withdraw.
Dumbledore could hardly annouce that his purpose in hosting the
tournament was to protect  Karkaroff from a resurgent Voldemort
because Karkaroff had taken the rap for betraying DE's who had 
actually been outed by Snape, but that is certainly a possibility. 

Your plan is not a bad one, but Harry would never have cooperated
with it. He'd rather die a thousand deaths --  or leave Hogwarts-- than 
be made to look like a coward in front of the whole school. With
Voldie on his way back Harry'd be at less risk competing openly than 
leaving school or sneaking behind DD's back to compete as he did to save
the Stone.

> Pippin:
> Dumbledore's fairness (and I do believe
> > he thought it was only fair to credit Harry in the spirit of the
> > rules) actually worked against his interest, assuming he
> > was more interested in keeping Harry alive than in having
> > him win a contest he didn't want him to have entered in the
> > first place.
> 
> Magpie:
> But that still goes to a_svirn's point, which is not that Harry is a 
big cheater himself.  It's that Dumbledore gets to meddle in things 
when he thinks they need evening up but at other times--times 
when things are a lot more blatantly irregular--he doesn't do anything.  

For instance, his school having an extra champion is far more unfair 
and not in the spirit of the rules than Harry getting fewer points 
because he took the most time to come out of the lake.  I don't even 
think the latter is not in the spirit of the rules any more than it 
would be in the spirit of the rules of basketball to say that 
someone should get points for scoring a basket after the 
buzzer because they stopped to help someone up who had 
fallen on their way to the basket.

Pippin;

The rules seem to be that scoring is totally within the judges' discretion, 
just like the scoring for the House Cup. I don't recall anything in the
rules that says they can't award extra points for moral fibre.
Does anyone think that if it had been Krum or Fleur who stayed to 
make sure the other hostages were safe, Dumbledore wouldn't have 
wanted extra points awarded to them?  Anyway, no one has addressed 
my  point that as far as Dumbledore knew, all  Harry would get out
of being awarded extra points is more exposure to the dangers
of the maze.


Pippin