Hero types was Re: Another Snape thread/ Snape as hero

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 152053

> > >>bboyminn:
> > <snip>
> > I will add another point to the discussion. One can act heroic 
> > without being considered or classified as a hero. I think this 
> > will be Snape's ultimate fate.
> > <snip>

> >>"bigdaddy999197":
> I like the comment about Snape doing something heroic but not     
> being a hero. I have a hard time with a hero that is mean to       
> children. McGonagall shows tough love. Snape is just mean.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
The funny thing is, I think McGonagall is the scarier and the meaner 
teacher.  I'd take Snape over her any day of the week.  (I've had a 
McGonagall type teacher.  Learned a lot, took some massive blows to 
my self-esteem at the same time.  Did teach me a lot about pack 
behavior though.)

But can one be a hero and not be warm and fuzzy?  I'd say yes, most 
definitely.  I *do* think Snape will end this series being viewed as 
a certain type of hero.  Plenty of readers seem him as a hero 
already.  He won't replace Harry's role as the main hero of the 
series.  But not everyone will look at him as an unheroic character 
who did one or two heroic acts.  Certainly not amongst the readers.

As far as the WW goes, I won't make that call.  *Harry* might not 
even be recognized as a hero in the WW when the books end.  I'm sure 
he'll defeat Voldemort, but it might not be in a manner easily 
recognized by the WW.  (And we've already seen how fickle the WW can 
be.)

> >>Joe:
> Will Snape risk everything to save a weak or innocent person from
> harm? I think maybe that's a stretch even for DDM!Snape.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
If Snape is DDM than he's already risked everything to save weak 
and/or innocent people from harm.  Everything he did on the Tower 
was to save the inhabitants of the school (plenty of weak and 
innocent folks there).  He also risked everything to save Draco 
(weak and/or innocent, himself).  Snape has saved Harry's life at 
least twice. (Three times counting the end of HBP.)  The second time 
saving the lives of Harry's friends as well.  As he's also playing 
the part of spy, both rescues came with a certain amount of risk.

> >>Joe:
> Personally I think it will be just as weak an ending if Snape turns
> out to be a hero as if he turned out to be rotten through and
> through. A Snape that is looking out for himself yet still working
> against Voldemort just strikes me as having more depth. It also
> strikes me as more true to his nature but that is just my opinion.

Betsy Hp:
Others share your opinion here, Joe.  But I disagree.  We've already 
got the "out for himself" character in Peter Pettigrew.  I'm not 
sure why it'd be more interesting to have Snape ape Peter.  Nor do I 
see why that would give Snape more depth.

I also don't see this as being part of Snape's nature.  I see Snape 
as someone with a very strong personal code.  Therefore I can't see 
him being morally ambiguous enough to easily adjust his personal 
moral code because there's more in it for him if he does so.  I 
think he'd despise such behavior as weak.  (Part of his contempt for 
Lupin, I think.)  Snape will do as his code dictates even if it 
seperates him from his friends; puts his life in danger; forces him 
to work with people he despises; paints him as the worst sort of 
betrayer.  To me, that is all the depth any character could ask for.

> >>Carol:
> I would classify Snape (assuming that he's DDM!) as a Byronic hero.
> Here's a partial definition of the term from

http://www.umd.umich.edu/casl/hum/eng/classes/434/charweb/CHARACTE.ht
m  :

> <major snip of quotes, keeping just this tiny part>
> "He also has emotional and intellectual capacities, which are    
>  superior to the average man."
> <snip>
> Obviously, the definition doesn't fit perfectly (especially his
> "emotional capacity")...
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Okay, I'll bite. <g>  Why do you "especially" think Snape doesn't 
have superior emotional capacities?  How are you defining that 
phrase?  I take it as someone who feels things deeply, and maybe 
also someone who has a strong sense of what other people are 
feeling.  I think Snape has shown himself to be a man of great 
feeling.  And I think we've seen him demonstrate a pretty keen sense 
of how others are feeling too.  True, it's not often expressed in a 
*positive* way.  But the definition doesn't refer only to positive 
expression.

> >>Carol:
> I would add that Snape's mystique and his dark hair and eyes      
> resemble those of the best-known Byronic heroes, Rochester and    
> Heathcliff, and his black robes trailing behind him as he sweeps   
> from a room, his frequently "unfathomable" expressions, even his   
> dark hair and eyes--suggest a gothic element often associated with 
> Byronic heroes... 
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Snape certainly has elements of the Byronic hero.  Especially when 
his passion gets away from him.  However, there's also the element 
of reason to Snape.  He's not just a man of passion (Byron, etc.) 
he's also a man of logic and science.  There's an element of 
Sherlock Holmes to Snape.  (Ooh, there was an excellent post a while 
back showing how very similar those two characters are.  Do I dare 
go searching for it? Yes, I do.  Here it is:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/130772 )

And, as I mentioned earlier in this post, I really see Snape 
operating under a very strict personal moral code.  One that 
Dumbledore knows and approves of.  Hence the trust.

Upthread I spoke of the "Romantic Hero" as it pertained to Snape.  
And there were elements of the anti-hero to that definition as 
well.  My main problem with the anti-hero is that often that sort of 
hero is more passive in his involvement in the fight against evil.  
The anti-hero fights almost in spite of himself.  Whereas Snape, 
IMO, is actively and with full understanding of his actions fighting 
against evil with everything he has.

Betsy Hp (wondering what sort of hero Sherlock Holmes would be 
classified as)