Snape the teacher

[Joe Goodwin]

No: HPFGUIDX 152362


Shaun Hately <drednort at alphalink.com.au> wrote:    
The thing is - as I have said previously, I *benefited* greatly from some
Snape-like teachers I had as a child. 
<SNIP>
   
  Joe: Thats fair enough but how many of your fellow students educations suffered because of the method that allowed you to flourish.

  Shaun:
<SNIP>
Whole years
of my childhood were destroyed by the fact that people had decided that *my*
needs didn't matter in comparison to the needs of other children - and that
really is what people do when they go around acting as if there's no place for
teachers like Snape in schools - because what about those of us who benefited
from them? Were we so unimportant that our needs didn't count? Are kids like
us in schools today so unimportant that their needs don't matter either?
   
  Joe: No your needs were important but that shows one of the great flaws of Snape. A good teacher is able to reach out to almost all students.

Shaun:
Can we just forget about these kids and what they need so the Nevilles of this
world are happy at school? Why is Neville so important? Why does every single
class in the school have to be Neville friendly?

Because, yes, I do think Neville gets a raw deal from being in Snape's classes
and that it probably isn't the right place for him. But I got a raw deal from
being in 80% of the classes I attended at school that weren't right for me.
And of the minority of classes that worked for me... well, not all those
teachers were Snape's (some were McGonagall's) quite a few had a bit of the
Snape in them - and others an awful lot of it.

I sometimes wonder - those people who are so opposed to Snape's teaching
methods - what do they make of kids like me? Do they think we're unimportant?
Or do they think we're delusional and utterly mistaken about what worked for
us and what didn't?
   
  Joe: 
Sorry but I'm not really sure what your point here is

  Shaun:
<SNIP>
First of all, I just want to start with two little quotes - at least one of
which I have shared before. This first quote comes directly from my most
Snape-like teacher (a decade and a half after he taught me, I find him quite
easy to talk to) when I mentioned to him that I compared him to Snape and used
him as an example of how a Snape-like teacher could be a good thing. He agreed
with me that he was like that, and other people had made the comparison. Later
on he sent me an e-mail with further discussion of this and I asked his
permission to quote this little paragraph.
<SNIP of the quote, go UPTHREAD to read it>

  Joe: So he is the best eh? Does he have any documentation for that or just a inflated sense of self worth? I take it he teaches at a boys school because otherwise he just ignored a bit more than half the population.

  Shaun:
Just a little insight into the thoughts of a self confessed Snape that I think
is interesting, and shows how such a person can actually truly have the
interests of their students at heart deep down. I'm not saying Snape does when
he teaches - I don't know if he does. But I do know that a teacher can have
all the appearances of Snape (and more) and really still have his students in
mind.
   
  Joe: Sorry but I got the impression he was more interested in maintaining his perhaps self appointed title than making a real impact in people's lives.
   
  Shaun:
The other quote is from the history of one of the schools I attended and
concerns one of the other Snape like teachers I had at school. I will be
concealing his name, simply because I don't have his permission to expose him
like this, but besides that the quote is verbatim.

"Another long-serving staff member was ****** ******. Many of his students
regard him as the best maths teacher they ever had. 'His style of teaching was
very systematic, which I thought was a good way to learn, and he made things
quite interesting.' His maths results were without parallel, and he was a
particularly good teacher of the brightest students. He tested the boys
constantly and read out their results in class while handing back maths tests.
This practice produced an extraordinary competitiveness among his students.
'He demanded the best of everyone.' ****** ****** is also remembered as a
strict disciplinarian."


I won't quote this book in general as I have a class to go to in a short time,
and this e-mail is taking longer than I expected but there is some material in
this book that I think may be very interesting in terms of why different
people may see Snape differently. In some cases at least. And that is their
gender.

I can't demonstrate this statistically but I do have the impression that most
of those who express a dislike for Snape *as a teacher* on this list are
female, and most of those who express support for his teaching style as valid
are male. Sax talks about how boys and girls react to different classroom
management styles differently (in general - none of this is absolute) in a
reasonable amount of detail. I won't go into all of this now - I can be a bit
more detailed if people want - but Sax presents the idea that a
confrontational, in-your-face approach to classroom management that can even
involve yelling at a child works well with a lot of boys - but would be a very
bad approach for most girls - who tend to respond better to a supportive,
non-confrontational approach.
   
  Joe: Sorry but I am male and a former US marine. I have no problem with a hard nosed approach to learning in many cases. The major problem I have that makes me say that Snape is a terrible techer is that he has only one approach. 
   
  It is his JOB to teach as many students as possible as much knowledge as possible and to do what is needed in each case. You can say he acts like he does to help educate the students of Hogwarts but if he were really concerned with every student then he would alter his methods when he found that his original ideas were not working.
   
  But he doesn't alter them to fit the particular student. What he does is totally destroy what potential exists in those that do not respond to his teaching methods. It is his JOB to adapt his method to maximize his effectiveness but he doesn't because he doesn't care.
  
Shaun:
Stress improves learning in males - but impairs it in females (again, this is
a generalisation - Sax actually devotes quite a bit of time towards the end of
his book looking at some reasons why the generalisations are not always true,
but as generalisations they do work).

The point is though - that gender may make a difference here to the way some
of us are seeing Snape's teaching style. 
   
  Joe: 
Hogwarts isn't a normal school either. It is almost a hybrid of normal school and vocational school. In it's vocational aspect Snape's JOB is to train people to be able to use Potions in certain professions and to attract students to want to consider a career in Potions. 
   
  Most people aren't going to choose a career where they have grown to despise the subject.
   
  Note this isn't so much of an indictement of Snape's personality as it is his performance. He has a responsibility to try every method possible to motivate his students and yet he does not.
   
  He is a terrible teacher.
   
  Joe