Amortentia and re The morality of love potions/Merope and Tom Sr.

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 152381

Carol responds:
> He must have known that he was condemning them both to poverty and 
> perhaps starvation, and yes, it was his duty, as the child's father 
> and the girl's husband (tricked into marriage or not) to provide 
> for them. The only part of his marriage vows that he kept was 
> to "forsake all others," giving up the woman he would have 
> preferred to marry. And that, IMO, is the chief cause of his 
> suffering, which is not nearly as great as hers.

SSSusan, who cannot BELIEVE she's entering into this thread, says:

Setting aside the issue of who suffered more (I definitely believe 
each suffered, so I'm NOT arguing Merope didn't suffer a LOT), I just 
can't believe Tom's "marriage vows" enter into this at all.  

Let's say someone slipped a mickey into Hagrid's brewski down at the 
Three Broomsticks, and then asked him to sign a contract saying he'd 
leave Hogwarts forever.  Would anyone -- would any court -- hold him 
to that "contract"?  To me, that's a parallel with Tom.  If he took 
his marriage "vows" under the influence of Merope's love potion, then 
why is he obligated to keep to those vows/that contract?

And even if you're not arguing that he had a legal obligation to 
stand by her, I also don't think many people would feel he had any 
moral obligation either, regardless of how pathetic the situation 
was.  *I'm* guessing he was horrified by what she had done and 
couldn't wait to get away.  Am I alone in thinking that's how most of 
us would react if someone had tricked us into such a relationship and 
totally altered our life??

I'm not Catholic, but I do know that one of the conditions under 
which a marriage can be annulled is if one of the parties was misled 
by the other.  Again, this seems so obvious to me that that's what 
Merope did -- she misled Tom, tricked him.  Why should he be under 
any obligation to her?  

It's NOT the same to me as a person making a foolish mistake (e.g., 
getting drunk and then signing a contract or having sex with 
someone).  It's that the ability to choose for oneself was removed.  
I don't understand how a person who's ability to choose to whom s/he 
is attracted or not should be held accountable for behavior springing 
forth from that false attraction.


Carol:
> To return to the "rape" idea, please find me some evidence that 
> anyone in the book considers Tom Sr.to be the victim of rape. 
> Dumbledore certainly doesn't, nor does Harry. Nor does Tom Sr. 
> himself claim anything of the sort. He says that he 
> was "hoodwinked," meaning, according to Dumbledore, tricked nto 
> marrying a girl he didn't and couldn't love. 

SSSusan:
Dumbledore "certainly" doesn't?  I can't go along with that.  He 
*might* not; it isn't clear; it wasn't asked directly. (IIRC. That 
is, I don't recall Harry saying, "You mean she RAPED him??")  I know 
people hate when this card is pulled, but... um... CHILDREN'S book, 
anyone?  Is JKR going to use the term "rape" in a series where the 
farthest she's gone is "snogging"?  (Nobody talking about getting to 
3rd base; no pregnancies amongst the students.)  To me "hoodwinked" 
is a safer term, in that *kids* might focus on "trickery," whereas 
adults might take it much more as a euphemism for a forced 
relationship.


Carol:
> And when he did have it, it was consensual sex with his lawfully 
> wedded wife , or so he would have seen it at the time. Merope was 
> not standing over him with a wand or a gun forcing him to have sex.

SSSusan:
Again, *lawfully*?  Would a court of law uphold a marriage which took 
place under these circumstances?  I cannot imagine it.  And how do we 
know it was consensual?  Just because he... ahem...  got it up and 
did the deed doesn't prove it was consensual.  How do we know love 
potions don't allow for the arousal itself?

And one caveat:  I'm NOT arguing for a Merope who 
tinentionally "raped" or "abused" Tom.  I see a very desperate person 
who didn't know any way out of her situation nor any other way to get 
Tom to "love" her.  Her sad, desperate situation still doesn't make 
what she did okay, nor (imo) does it require Tom to fulfill any 
marital "vows" or "obligations."

Siriusly Snapey Susan