CHAPDISC: HBP16, A Very Frosty Christmas

[potioncat]

No: HPFGUIDX 152677

"cubfanbudwoman" <susiequsie23 at ...> wrote: 
> QUESTIONS
> 1.  Why the heck does Harry never look anything up?  Clearly, he's 
> curious about the Unbreakable Vow.  Why not grab a book?  Why not 
ask 
> the librarian? 

Potioncat:
Well, in the real world, we all hold librarians in the higest esteem, 
and frequently go to them for help in researching all sorts of 
things. They are far and away suprior to Google. 

The Hogwarts librarian is, shall we say, not up to the same standard? 
Someone like Hermione might be able to carry on without Madam Pince's 
help, or might know how to best frame a question to get some 
reasonable results, but Harry wouldn't have that ability/interest. 

[Potioncat would like to say that a list elf who will remain nameless 
is a librarian, so it would be best not to flood the board with 
stories of "bad librarians." Should anyone have such a story, that 
is.]
> 
> 2.  So what's your best guess of what the twins' attempted 
> Unbreakable Vow was all about?  What do you think they tried to get 
> Ron to do?  Do you think they understood exactly what they were 
> doing?  How do you image these youngsters (they'd have been about 
7) 
> would've learned about UVs?

Potioncat:
Oh, wouldn't I like to know? First off, are UVs Dark? (UV rays do 
block the sun...nevermind) Arthur must have had some reason to lose 
his temper. Ron states it's the only time he has. Arthur must have 
really thought something would come of it, but these were little 
kids!!! The UV requires a wand, and certain words and controlled 
magic....Did he really think they would succeed? OR, Arthur himself 
was involved in a UV that caused some sort of unpleasant flashback 
and his anger was over the top.
> 
> 3.  Is it significant that Ginny has told Fred & George about Ron & 
> Lav-Lav, given the "encounter" with Ron when he happened upon her & 
> Dean snogging?  Do you think she's always talked about Ron to F&G? 
Do 
> you think she was hoping they'd transfer their "nosing in" to Ron's 
> love life from hers?

Potioncat:
She seems close to them. I think she'd rather have Hermione as Ron's 
love interest and was hoping for some help.
> 
> 4. Fred waits to call Percy a prat until after Molly has left the 
> kitchen.  Does this show there is a side to him which cares about 
> others' feelings?  Or does he simply fear the Wrath of Molly?

Potioncat:
The family is so hurt by Percy, so severely hurt, that Fred knew it 
would hurt his mother even more to say anything in front of her. That 
doesn't stop his anger or his opinion about Percy. But I thought it 
was interesting that there was a chance of Percy's coming for 
Christmas and that Molly's excuse was that he was busy.

> 
> 5.  What do you think of Harry's pronouncement that he's going to 
> tell DD and anyone who can help about Snape's offer to help Draco?  
> Does this signal a change in Harry re: turning to others, relying 
> upon others more?

Potioncat:
Finally! Too little, too late it seems.
> 
> 6.   "They didn't hear him.  No one's 
> that good an actor, not even Snape."  Contrast this with Snape's 
> statement to Draco:  "Where do you think I would have been all 
these 
> years, if I had not known how to act?"  It seems to me that this is 
> the crux of the Harry-Snape "problem" and the "problem" for the 
> fandom in trying to figure out Severus Snape.  *Is* he acting?  
When 
> is he acting and when is he not?  How good an actor is he?  Is 
Harry 
> correct that "even Snape" is not that good an actor?

Potioncat:
I think he is, for this reason. DDM!Snapers heard the words and gave 
them one set of meanings. OFH/ESE!Snapers gave them different set of 
meanings. Even the phrase, "Where do you think I would have been all 
these years..." seems to have a double meaning.

> 
> 7.  Who do you think, in the past, has issued invitations to 
Hermione 
> for Christmas at the Burrow?  Do you imagine Hermione invited 
> herself? Ron invited her? Mrs. Weasley? Ginny?  Or that it was 
simply 
> assumed she'd go?  What do you think happened this year?  Was an 
> invitation given and declined? Was it all so awkward between Ron & 
> Hermione that she was not invited at all?

Potioncat:
It could have been either Ron or Ginny. In the past they were 
buddies. But I've seen (in my own kids) friendships come and go. I 
think that either no invitation was issued, or Ginny invited and 
Hermione declined. Or it could be explained away by Hermione having 
to spend some time with her parents.
> 
> 8.  Comments on the "gnome angel"?  Yet another hilarious stunt by 
> the twins, or yet another sign that the twins lack a conscience 
> and/or are cruel?

Potioncat:
I thought the method for getting rid of them was bad enough! I'm sure 
I wouldn't want one on my tree. This sort of thing reminds me that we 
have a cultural base for witches/wizards being mean/spiteful/unkind 
and from time to time, JKR seems to be reminding us of that.
> 
> 9.  Many people fault Molly (or Molly & Ginny) for not being warm 
and 
> welcoming with Fleur.  Is there anyone who, to the contrary, finds 
> Fleur's behavior in the Christmas Eve scene to be rude ["Eez eet 
> over?  Thank goodness, what an `orrible--"]?  Or should Molly not 
> have subjected everyone to Celestina Warbeck in the first place?

Potioncat:
I thought Fleur was being rude. But when I really looked at the 
lyrics, I wasn't so sure:

Oh, come and stir my cauldron,
> And if you do it right,
> I'll boil you up some hot strong love
> To keep you warm tonight.

It reminds me of rap lyrics, and if it was my kids listening to it, 
I'd want to turn it off too!

It also sounds like a cough*lovepotion*cough.

My first reaction was that Molly didn't like Fleur but she was trying 
to be nice to her. I didn't see that Fleur was trying to be nice 
back. But someone else has mentioned it was most likely even.

Fleur didn't get a sweater, I wonder what Molly did give her? We know 
Molly can be petty (Hermione's Easter egg), but would Fleur have 
wanted a sweater?

> 
> 10.  Additionally, 
> Lupin makes some remarks here about Snape which surprised some 
fans. 
> Was he speaking what he truly believed?  Did you believe him?

Potioncat:
It did set us up didn't it, and it was pretty well repeated 
afterwards by the Order members. I thought it was interesting that 
Lupin referred to Snape as "Severus." I think he did call him by 
first name in PoA, but I was surprised that he referred to him that 
way. Also it was interesting that Lupin mentions it as James&Sirius 
vrs Severus, as if he and Peter were no part of the animosity at all. 
I find it hard to believe that  he can neither like nor dislike 
Severus. I could understand not liking but respecting, or not liking 
but appreciating. I don't know. The moment Lupin was described as 
listening in to Harry and Arthur my ESE!Lupin radar went off. (It's 
all Pippin's fault.)
> 
> 11.  It is clear, to Lupin anyway, that Harry is *hoping* that the 
> HBP is his father.  This is reinforced by the fact that Harry is 
> disappointed when he checks the book's date and sees it's too old 
to 
> have been his dad's era.  Harry has also previously stated that the 
> HBP is a better potions teacher than Snape.  Why does Harry like 
the 
> HBP so much, and why does he *want* him to be his father?  And what 
> does all this say about Harry and Snape?  Has something changed in 
> Snape, to have made him truly a lesser teacher now than then?  Or 
is 
> it simply the removal, for Harry, of Snape the person and their 
> unpleasant history from the mix, so that he's seeing "pure 
teaching" 
> in the book and not the personality of the teacher?

Potioncat:
Harry was helped by his father (or so he thought) in PoA, and I think 
he was hoping for another connection with James. Wouldn't that just 
be cool, that the father he can't remember is still there, helping 
him learn magic? It makes it so much more ironic that it's Snape who 
is helping him. 

I think Harry is accepting the notes written by a boy who so much 
like himself. I wonder if Harry will ever think of Snape as having 
been a teenager with similar problems.....(what world am I on, of 
course he won't!) I think Snape worked out better ways of making the 
potions, but not good ways of teaching them.

I think it's very interesting that Lupin doesn't recognise the 
nickname. So, it appears Snape's nickname was only for himself, or 
the Slytherins did a better job of protecting code names. It also 
sort of blows my theory that the Marauders had Severus's book for a 
while.

> 
> 12. Why would werewolves have a better life under Voldemort?

Potioncat:
Werewolves like Fenrir would have a better supply of meat. 
OOh, Yuck. I didn't just say that, did I?
> 
> 13.  Are you surprised Molly falls for the story that Percy 
couldn't 
> stand to not see his family since they were in the neighborhood?  
Why 
> or why not?

Potioncat:
It's very hard not to believe the best in your child, even when no 
else does.
> 
> 14.  Percy could be so many things.  What do you think?  Is he good 
> but misguided?  Is he ESE?  Is he just a prat?  What explains his 
> behavior?  Is he embarrassed? proud? ambitious? hurt?

Potioncat:
I really expected to see more of Percy by now. I used to think he was 
working for DD, and he may be. But I don't think he's ESE. I think he 
sought a different path than the rest of his family.(I'm still hoping 
it includes DD.) Of course, it would be just Snape's luck that the 
one person who knows why DD trusted Snape is Percy, and of course, no 
one would trust Percy either.
> 
> 15.   Were you surprised at the growth he displayed, or 
> was this just exactly what you would have expected from him?  What 
> did you think of Harry in this scene?

Potioncat:
We've seen several moments of strength and maturity in Harry. This 
was a big one. It's different from his encounters with Fudge in PoA.


Great job Susan!