CHAPDISC: HBP16, A Very Frosty Christmas

[juli17 at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 152699

 

QUESTIONS
1.  Why the heck does Harry never look anything  up?  Clearly, he's 
curious about the Unbreakable Vow.  Why not  grab a book?  Why not ask 
the librarian?  


It surprises me that Harry doesn't look a *few* things up, but he  never
has, so I guess he's just not a book person. He prefers to find his 
answers other ways. And Hermione's always right there to get the book
answers anyway, whether he asks for them or not!

2.  So what's your best guess of what the twins' attempted  
Unbreakable Vow was all about?  What do you think they tried to get  
Ron to do?  Do you think they understood exactly what they were  
doing?  How do you image these youngsters (they'd have been about 7)  
would've learned about UVs?
 
I assume the twins overheard the term and used it, likely without 
really understanding its true consequences (as they were only 7). 
Also due to their age, I feel pretty certain neither Molly or Arthur 
taught them the term, even with a warning never to use it (which  would
be rather like a parent saying "There's a loaded gun in the top of my
closet, but you are not allowed to play with it" to a 7 year  old!)

4. Fred waits to call Percy a prat until after Molly has left the  
kitchen.  Does this show there is a side to him which cares about  
others' feelings?  Or does he simply fear the Wrath of Molly?
 
It was probably a little of both, sparing her feelings and avoiding
the inevitable furious defense of Percy. He knows Molly is a mother 
first when it comes to Percy (or any of her children), after all.  

5.  What do you think of Harry's pronouncement that he's going to  
tell DD and anyone who can help about Snape's offer to help Draco?   
Does this signal a change in Harry re: turning to others, relying 
upon  others more?
 
I do think it signals a change, and it's a good step in the right  direction 
for Harry. I hope we see more of it in Book 7.

6.  When Ron  says that DD & his dad are likely to protest that Snape 
is not really  intending to help Draco but is only trying to get 
information from him,  Harry says, "They didn't hear him.  No one's 
that good an actor, not  even Snape."  Contrast this with Snape's 
statement to Draco:   "Where do you think I would have been all these 
years, if I had not known  how to act?"  It seems to me that this is 
the crux of the Harry-Snape  "problem" and the "problem" for the 
fandom in trying to figure out Severus  Snape.  *Is* he acting?  When 
is he acting and when is he  not?  How good an actor is he?  Is Harry 
correct that "even Snape"  is not that good an actor?
 
I think Snape is good at hiding his feelings, as evidenced by his 
frequent "unreadable" and "inscrutable" looks. Whether he's as good
at projecting false feelings is another matter, though I don't think  he is. 
It seems when Snape allows himself to show any feelings (or loses 
his ability to control his emotions when he's in a temper) those  feelings 
are indeed genuine.
 
Now whether Harry is (or we are) *interpreting* the feelings  correctly is
the big question to me. The hatred and disgust on Snape's face when
he kills Dumbledore, for instance, might be directed at Dumbledore,  at
himself, or at the task he is being forced to perform. It's not  Snape's
feelings I have difficulty discerning, it's his motivations, and that may 
also be where Harry is having problems. 

8.  Comments on the  "gnome angel"?  Yet another hilarious stunt by 
the twins, or yet  another sign that the twins lack a conscience 
and/or are cruel?
 
Gnomes are pests, but so are rats, and I certainly wouldn't petrify a
rat, paint it, plop a Santa hat on it and put it on top of my tree!  Yuck!
I mean, why would anyone want to look at a petrified gnome  anyway?
What were Molly and Arthur thinking? One feels worried for any deer
that might wander past the Burrow--will they be petrified and tied to
a lit-up sleigh in the front yard? And is there an SPCA in the WW?  Er,
probably not, but back to the original point...
 
As for cruelty, the WW seems to accept a certain level of cruelty 
without censure. Perhaps it's inevitable when wizard kids can take
out their frustrations on each other with a variety of hexes and  spells.
But I still wish Molly or Arthur had insisted the twins release the
gnome and just put a star or something on top of their  tree!

9.  Many people fault Molly (or Molly & Ginny) for not  being warm and 
welcoming with Fleur.  Is there anyone who, to the  contrary, finds 
Fleur's behavior in the Christmas Eve scene to be rude ["Eez  eet 
over?  Thank goodness, what an `orrible--"]?  Or should Molly  not 
have subjected everyone to Celestina Warbeck in the first place?
 
I find Molly and Fleur equally responsible. Molly should have tried
harder to discover Fleur's likes and dislikes and include her in the
Christmas activities, but Fleur should be adult enough to display at
least a bare minimum of good manners!

10.  The scene with  Harry, Arthur & Lupin is one which, when we look 
back upon it, is  clearly setting us up for the tower scene.  It is 
filled with the kinds  of remarks and statements which feel 
like "great pronouncements" or "truths"  or "key insights,"  such 
as "It comes down to whether you trust DD's  judgment" and "But 
Dumbledore can make mistakes" and "You are determined to  hate him, 
Harry" and "Has it occurred to you, Harry, that Snape was simply  
pretending—?"  Play those lines off one another, and you pretty much  
have the DDM!Snape and ESE!Snape camps after the tower scene, no?   
(As well as the "DD could NEVER have been that wrong about Snape" 
vs.  "DD can make BIG mistakes" camps.)  Comments?  Additionally, 
Lupin  makes some remarks here about Snape which surprised some fans. 
Was he  speaking what he truly believed?  Did you believe him?
 
I'm probably in the minority, but I think Lupin *was* speaking what  he
believed. Lupin is a very tolerant person, and perhaps because of his
own "problem" he is willing to accept others' weaknesses. He  considered
Sirius a dear friend though Sirius often didn't hold up his side of  the
friendship, because he understood Sirius's impetuous nature and his
arrested development due to his years of confinement in Azkaban. And 
while Lupin certainly doesn't consider Severus a friend, he  understands
what Snape went through as an outcast in school, enough so that he
has developed no real hatred of Snape. Add to that the wolfsbane
and Lupin's belief that Snape is working for the Order at great  risk 
(whether this turns out to be true or not), even Snape revealing  Lupin's
secret isn't enough to make Lupin truly dislike him (especially as
Lupin no doubt assigns himself as much or more blame for being 
outed after the Shrieking Shack incident). 

11.  It is clear,  to Lupin anyway, that Harry is *hoping* that the 
HBP is his father.   This is reinforced by the fact that Harry is 
disappointed when he checks the  book's date and sees it's too old to 
have been his dad's era.  Harry  has also previously stated that the 
HBP is a better potions teacher than  Snape.  Why does Harry like the 
HBP so much, and why does he *want* him  to be his father?  And what 
does all this say about Harry and  Snape?  Has something changed in 
Snape, to have made him truly a lesser  teacher now than then?  Or is 
it simply the removal, for Harry, of  Snape the person and their 
unpleasant history from the mix, so that he's  seeing "pure teaching" 
in the book and not the personality of the  teacher?
 
I'm not sure it's really the "pure teaching" of the book, since  Harry 
assigns a personality to the HBP, based on what he's reading. 
Certainly the teenaged HBP is a very different person from the adult
Snape. I do think there is too much animosity between Snape  and
Harry for much knowledge to pass from one to the other. But I also
think those parts of the HBP that Harry identifies with may be what 
will allow Harry and adult Snape to eventually come to a detente of
sorts (assuming DDM!Snape). Snape may no longer be the HBP,
but the HBP *is* part of him, a part Harry can understand, perhaps
even like. It's a connection between them that's been established,
and it will be interesting to see where it leads. 

12. Why would  werewolves have a better life under Voldemort?
 
They'd be free to attack and feed without impunity. Or at least  that's
what they think, though anyone who believes Voldemort's promises 
is going to be unpleasantly surprised, I think (or would be, if he  were
to win the war, which of course he won't ;-).

13.  Are you  surprised Molly falls for the story that Percy couldn't 
stand to not see his  family since they were in the neighborhood?  Why 
or why not?
 
No, because as someone else said, parents need to believe the best
of their children. Until and if Molly is presented evidence she can't
ignore, she will continue to believe the best of Percy. 

14.   Percy could be so many things.  What do you think?  Is he good 
but  misguided?  Is he ESE?  Is he just a prat?  What explains his  
behavior?  Is he embarrassed? proud? ambitious? hurt?
 
I think he started out an ambitious prat, who is too proud to admit  that
he may have been misguided, but who, when pushed into a corner, will
do the right thing in the end, likely at the cost of his life.  

15.  In the final scene of the chapter, Harry first senses and then  
knows that Scrimgeour is after something, and he is determined not to  
give it to him.  We see a Harry who I would argue is self-possessed,  
confident, forceful, and quite "adult" in sticking up for what he  
believes is right.  Were you surprised at the growth he displayed, or  
was this just exactly what you would have expected from him?  What  
did you think of Harry in this scene?
 
I agree that Harry showed a great deal of growth, and for the first  time
we saw a hint of how strong a person he will be as an adult. No  one 
is going to push him around!  Hey, maybe Lupin should take  notes!

16.  What do you think of Scrimgeour now? Compare him to  Fudge, if 
you like.


 
I haven't fully made up my mind about Scrimgeour. In HBP he's not  much
better than Fudge, but it remains to be seen how he will react when  the
war reaches a point where he has to make a definitive choice between 
Voldemort and the Order. I think he may actually stick with the  Order.
 
Julie 


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