Nice vs. Good, honesty, and Snape: Was Snape, Apologies, and Redemption

[leslie41]

No: HPFGUIDX 152833

> Lanval:
> Last night watching 'House, MD', there was an exchange between 
> House and a "patient" (don't want to go into details here, with 
> those in mind who haven't yet seen it, or those who aren't 
> familiar with the show). And these lines made me think:
> "People aren't tactful and polite just because it's nice. They do 
> it because they've got an ounce of humility. Because they know 
> they will make mistakes and they know that their actions have 
> consequences. And they know that those consequences are their 
> fault."
> 
> I don't really agree with the last statement, but on the whole it 
> makes a good case for being the right kind of 'nice'. 

Yes, but I don't think it's accurate either. "Niceness" doesn't 
spring at all from any sort of humility.  I think "niceness" (and 
manners, etc.) spring from a desire to do what is socially correct, 
and be socially accepted as a result. I think what that patient said 
about being polite actually applies much more to the concept 
of "forgiveness".  But that wouldn't be as convenient, considering 
what the patient did to House.  

As for Snape, like House he doesn't give a hoo about being socially 
accepted.  I think the characters are actually very much alike.  

> Lanval: 
> And that, I think, is why Adult!Snape's Not-Niceness (I won't 
> judge him as a child or teenager, that wouldn't be fair) bothers 
> me so much. I don't see a shred of humility, or compassion, 
> evident in the man. 

Leslie41:

Oddly enough, this makes me admire him more.  Humility and 
compassion are actually emotions that reward those that experience 
them.  We feel good about ourselves, and about our actions, because 
we perceive ourselves as humble and compassionate.  My guess is if 
we did not feel good about ourselves for exhibiting compassion, we 
would quickly squelch the emotion. How many of us would perform good 
works if we felt horrible about doing so?  How many people would 
give to charity if it did not reinforce our own self-esteem?

I don't think Snape is a compassionate person at all. Nor a humble 
one.  I don't count against him for not being humble, as from what I 
can see Snape is actually the most powerful wizard alive, outside of 
Voldemort (at least by the end of HBP). And he's been an effective 
double-agent, and fooling either DD or Voldemort (or both) for 
decades.  

Not a reason for him to be humble, really.  Any attempt at such 
would only ring false.  And though Snape may not be "humble," 
neither is he a show-off.  He's no Gilderoy Lockhart, that's for 
sure.  In fact Snape hates those characteristics in others, and does 
not demonstrate them himself.

As for him not being "compassionate," that depends on your view of 
compassion.  Snape commits acts of compassion, even if he does 
not "feel" compassion, because it is the right thing to do.  My 
guess is that he would feel that wallowing in compassion doesn't 
solve anything.  I'm reminded of T'Pau, the leader of the Vulcans 
(Star Trek: Original Series), who presides over the death match 
between Kirk and Spock in "Amok Time".  McCoy complains that it's 
too hot and the air is too thin on Vulcan for Kirk to be able to 
fight effectively. She doesn't respond with "compassion."  "The air 
is the air," says T'Pau.  "What can be done?"  

That seems to me to be Snape's attitude in general.  (We haven't 
brought Vulcans into this, but of course they show as well that it 
is very possible to be good without being nice.)
  
> Lanval:
> when I picture Snape's mind, I see a churning black pool of 
> resentment, self-pity, contempt, and anger. He has a chip on his 
> shoulder roughly the size of Mt Everest...  

Leslie41:
And yet he does the right thing anyway.  I feel for the guy.

> Lanval:
> and contrary to those who to think that Snape suffers from low 
> self-esteem, my impression actually is that he has a fairly large 
> ego. 

Leslie41:
A large ego that to my mind is well-deserved. It's not "fashionable" 
to have a large ego in our modern age.  It's not "admirable".  But 
that's only a recent attitude.  Most ancient heroes had huge egos.  
And put them on display all the time.  Plus, as I pointed out, if 
Snape does have a huge ego, he doesn't display it much.  We have to 
intuit it from analyzing his other behaviors.  

> I wonder, sometimes, about the Snape-loved-Lily theory. And how 
> Snape, if he was obsessed, or in love/lust with Lily, would have 
> reacted if Lily 'dared' to reject him -- and then chose James, of 
> all people. How the rage he felt at her may have played a part in 
> taking the prophesy to LV. 

Leslie41:
I don't think that is likely.  Snape looked like "a plant grown in 
the dark".  And never has he ever been shown to express any 
unrealistic ideas about his appeal, to students or anyone else.  I 
think if he did love Lily he would not have dared to hope she loved 
him back.

But I don't think he loved her.  That's a romantic idea but not to 
my mind a logical one.  

> Lanval:
> It would be another explanation for the huge amount of remorse DD 
> speaks of -- if Snape indeed felt guilt and remorse. But until we 
> get more details, that's all pure speculation. As usual.

Leslie41:
I think all the explanation we need for Snape JOINING the DE is that 
Snape was a tormented outsider, humiliated and violated by 
the "popular kids" in school.  The appeal of the Death Eaters is the 
same appeal of the "Trenchcoat Mafia", and the Nazis.  

As for why he felt remorse, we don't have the details, but in truth 
we don't need them, really.  Snape had an epiphany, where he 
realized that he was "better" than that, and that no matter how 
powerful and accepted he felt, what he was doing was wrong.