Scary Teachers - Good Teachers (was: Re: Hagrid and Snape...)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 152865

> --- dumbledore11214 <dumbledore11214 at ...> wrote:
>  
> > She certainly  dresses him down for loosing the
> > passwords for 
> > example, but invite others to do it to Neville?

Irene: 
> Of course she does. Every time someone has to let
> Neville in or out, that's extra humiliation and
> invitation for teasing.

Alla:

You know, I thought about it and I agree. I mean I said already that 
Mcgonagall treated Neville very badly twice, but yes, Ia gree she 
does, still see no difference between what Snape does and still think 
that Snape is far ahead by quantity of abuse, but yes.
 
Alla: 
> > And of course the important thing to me when we
> > compare Snape and 
> > Mcgonagall's treatment of Neville is that while
> > Mcgonagall is 
> > CERTAINLY guilty of mistreating Neville  on two
> > occasions  IMO ( 
> > that I remember), she also praises him ( there is
> > nothing wrong with 
> > your work but the lack of confidence).
Irene: 
> You consider that to be praise?! Oh my God.
> Oh, the memories of "You'd be such a beautiful girl if
> only you lost couple of pounds". Let me tell you - no
> child or teenager takes this kind of "praise" as a
> compliment.

Alla:

Well, I in my teenager years would consider this a praise and yes, 
the "compliment" you brought up unfortunately hits home, but I think 
your analogy is flawed, because Mcgonagall does not tell Neville that 
he needs to change anything in him, she does not tell him that he is 
clumsy idiot, or moronic, but that his work IS good, except he lacks 
confidence.

I don't know how explain it better, but after this praise my 
confidence would go up.

Okay, maybe it is not full blown compliment, but IMO it is atruthful 
assesment meaning to inspire such.


> On 25 May 2006 at 12:16, Irene Mikhlin wrote:
> 
> > Don't you see the contradiction? If you can't find
> > your ideal teacher, the one that will be right for all
> > the N children at school, what's the point in removing
> > a teacher that's all right for N-2 children? 
>
Alla:

No, I truly don't. The only reason I started to talk about hiring 
another teacher in addition to Snape is to address the needs of 
hypothetical children for whom Snape can be good, what I do see 
happening is Snape actively harming some children and for that again 
in RL context I don't think he should be teaching them.


> Shaun:
<SNIP>
> All teachers fail with some children. That's a reality - there are 
no perfect teachers. Some fail 
> abysmally with some children and triumph with others.
> 
> Why should the children they fail with be given a higher priority 
than the children they triumph 
> with?
> 
> What is so special about Neville Longbottom that means every other 
students education has 
> to be changed so he doesn't have to deal with Snape?
>

Alla:

As I said in the past, Shawn, I am talking about extreme cases of 
harm only. I know on that we disagree, but that's how I feel. If the 
choice is between majority getting the teacher which is good for them 
and several students ending up permanently harmed as the result, I 
prefer majority not getting the teacher which is good for them. I 
always bring the example of teacher  giving perfect education to 
forty students and let's say killing one of them. I do NOT think that 
such teacher should be allowed to teach.

That is of course that to me it is questionable at least that Snape 
is good for majority of students, although he very well could be.


> Shaun:
> <SNIP>
> But secondly, children aren't always capable of making this type of 
judgement. Just because 
> a child doesn't like being in a particular class doesn't mean it's 
not the best place for them to 
> be. Now, I happen to agree that it would probably be better for 
Neville that he not be in 
> classes with Snape, so in his specific case, I wouldn't have a 
problem with him being able to 
> choose an alternative if there was one - but generally speaking you 
can't let children make 
> these choices for themselves. It's not as simple as if the 
child 'wants to' change.
> <SNIP>

Alla:

Sure, as I said choosing here means involving child parents, etc, but 
let's say if child has permanent nightmares as a result of being in 
this teacher's class ( like to me this represents Neville's Boggart), 
then yes, I think something must be done here.  Oh, and you don't 
think that Harry's case is rather clear too?

The teacher has a grudge against the boy's parents and torments him 
because of that. I don't know I think Harry should be allowed to run 
away from this class as far as possible.

But again, I perfectly get  that in context of Hogwarts it is not 
going to happen and that would be a different story.

But do I think that Dumbledore OWED Harry and Neville to do something 
about Snape.

JMO,

Alla