Nice vs. Good, honesty, and Snape/Book 7 predictions and Harry's fate

[leslie41]

No: HPFGUIDX 152987



> > Leslie41:
> > Er, remember that Snape, while under the invisibility cloak, had 
> > just heard this man "begging to be heard out" state that he 
> > wasn't sorry about the prank, and it served Snape right.
> > 
> > Um, I might agree with you if Snape had heard Black say "I've 
> > been thinking about Snape while I was in Azkaban, and I don't 
> > think I treated him very well while we were in school.  I'm 
> > sorry about that."
> > 
> > So, in what universe should Snape, or anyone else be expected to 
> > hear Black out after that or give him a "second chance"?  
> <SNIP>
> 
> Alla:
> 
> In the same universe where thirteen year old boy, who is 
> completely sure that Black killed his parents decides to hear 
> him out. In the same universe where Dumbledore who is completely 
> sure that Black betrayed the Potters and the order decides to hear 
> him out as well. In the same universe where Dumbledore again 
> gives a second chance a juvenile assassin and with him his FAMILY, 
> where the head of the household is at very least gulty of 
> participation in Graveyard orgy.
> 
> In THAT universe, IMO.

Leslie41:

You are forgetting the intricacies of the situation here, Alla.  The 
legal intricacies, especially, and pretending as if Snape is himself 
the executioner, and that Snape himself has ultimate power to kill 
Black or spare him.

Remember that even HARRY and DUMBLEDORE don't have that power.  

Firstly, I think it speaks well of Harry that he hears Black out, 
but Lupin (a teacher he loves and trusts) is also on Black's side, 
persuading him.  And (a fact you keep ignoring) Snape has just heard 
Black say that he still hates Snape and thinks the prank against him 
was deserved.  

You're analyzing the situation on the basis of what *you* know about 
Black--that he's innocent.  You're not trying to think about what 
Snape should think based on what he experiences.  It's very 
convenient for you to say that Snape should listen.  You know Black 
is innocent. 

And what might Snape do even if Snape listened and believed?  FREE 
Sirius Black on his own authority?  As has been pointed out, he does 
not *have* that authority.  Even Dumbledore makes no overt attempt 
to save Black himself, only aids Harry in doing so.  

Snape does what he's supposed to do.     
  
> > > Alla:
> > > 
> > > Black just escaped from hell after being there for twelve 
> > > years. I'd say he has a very good excuse of being not 
> > > completely sane here.
> > 
> > Leslie41:
> > Of course he does.  You don't like Snape so there's no excuse 
> > for what he does.  You like Black so you'll make excuses for him.
> > 
> > Very human, but again, not logical.
> >
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Oh, I understand, "Ad hominem" is a very handy device, but I would 
> prefer to talk about the merits of my argument.

It's not an "ad hominem argument to say that you're not being 
logical.  Citing the illogic of another's argument *is* discussing 
the merits of the argument.  

> Alla:
> So, let me ask again. Why do you think that when I say that the 
> man who spent twelve years near the creatures who suck all 
> happiness out of the people and who make people go insane has 
> REASONS for being half- insane and not behaving very sane, I am 
> making excuses for him?

Leslie41:
I'm not saying that he doesn't have reasons.  I understand he has 
reasons.  I'm just saying that expecting Snape to FREE Black, or to 
do anything other than what he does, is ludicrious.  

The INsanity, at this point, is part and parcel of the fact that any 
SANE person wants him captured.  Remember again that Dumbledore says 
the *entire wizarding world* believes Snape should be captured.

> Alla:
> Do you think that they should be held to the same standard of 
> behaviour in PoA?

Leslie41:
What I think is that you are suggesting that Snape listen to and 
then free a person who is from his (and the Wizarding world's) 
perspective a convicted psychotic murderer.  

If you come across a convicted psychotic murderer, what you should 
do is run.  If you are capable, what you should do is subdue them 
and deliver them to the authorities.

What you should NOT do is listen to them, and then free them *on 
your own authotity*.

Such actions would get you thrown into jail *yourself*.

Understand now?