[HPforGrownups] Re: Draco's potion making skills WAS: Scary Teachers - Good Teachers

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 153070

 Alla:
>
> Well, yes, of course. "Innocent till proven guilty", but should we
> also automatically discard Draco's testimony just because we want
> him to be good in something and he may not be so? (Replying in
> general, not just to your argument)

Magpie:
Clever way to turn the argument around, but the evidence still all weighs on 
the side of Griselda Marchbanks being a tough old bird who could eat Lucius 
Malfoy for lunch.  We've got one line from a character with a history of 
exaggerating the importance of being a Pureblood with connections against no 
hint of a revelation of any sort of foul play, no refrence to any 
possibility that the OWLS aren't fair ever again, a Marchbanks who 
intimidates other people rather than being intimidated by them, a line from 
Neville Longbottom innocently poking a hole and deflating Draco's pretension 
and four years of Draco being cocky and favored in Potions.  I don't think 
that's discarding Draco's line because one wants him to be good at 
something.  That's just reading the cues in the scene in the most 
straightforward way.  Draco looks bad either way you read the scene.

Alla:
>
> I mean, don't get me wrong - Marchbank may not be in Malfoy's
> pocket, she likely is not as in 'taking bribes", but why wouldn't
> she come for dinner as one Ministry employee to another?

Magpie:
She might be having dinner with Stan Shunpike too for all we know, but when 
Draco says they have dinner and Neville says she never mentions the Malfoys 
it's showing us that the Malfoys don't impress Marchbanks, even if she's had 
dinner at their house. Nice little subtle show that Neville's social 
connections are very good.

Alla:
> I don't think her being friends with Dumbledore is relevant though,
> since as we know Dumbledore thought that Fake!Moody was his friend
> too

Magpie:
So the woman is polyjuiced now?  The story is ready to collapse from all the 
complications piled onto it!

Alla:
>
> I don't think Neri's original point even was that she is necessarily
> taking bribes, but more like that Malfoys KNOW people in high places
> and his daddy will at least attempt to ASK those people a favor,
> whether Marchbank will do so or not is a different story of course.

Magpie:
Her point was to use a scene of Draco bragging and Neville innocently 
revealing how much he's exaggerating as a reason to discard any ggood rade 
Neville got on an OWL.

Alla:.
>
> Malfoy is in on a lot of information that Harry is not. As I quote
> upthread he knows about Triwizard tournament earlier than Harry and
> co do, he also knows lots about Sirius Black, even that Black
> supposedly betrayed Harry's parents, while Harry still has no clue.

Magpie:
The Weasleys are in on the Triwizard Tournament too, but they're not telling 
Harry and Ron--we get lots of elbow nudging scenes.  Draco's father 
obviously told him, but that's not super secret knowledge since Ron's whole 
family knows it.  They were just keeping it as a surprise.  Many people in 
the WW knows that Sirius Black supposedly betrayed Harry's parents (and 
Harry quickly becomes the one with the real inside knowledge on that score).

None of this has anything to do with suggesting that a character who's 
characterized as a tough old Dumbledore supporter is, based on one line of 
Malfoy's that's undermined by Neville, actually taking bribes and we should 
think of her a book later when Malfoy shows up in Potions ready for class. 
When Malfoy knows something that Harry doesn't, it's eventually revealed. 
Not to mention it's usually presented as something that Malfoy actually 
knows that Harry doesn't, which this line isn't.

Alla:
> And to go back to Draco's potion making skills - there is one
> reference which Carol brought up earlier that he cut the plants
> well, but there is NO reference of Snape ever praising his potion,
> not ONCE ( as far as I remember of course), but there is plenty of
> evidence that Draco is sucking up to all teachers AND there is an
> evidence that Snape has a very long special connection to Malfoys
> family.

Magpie:
Yes, Snape's relationship with Draco goes beyond his performance in Potions, 
that's clear.  But that doesn't mean he can't get an O on his test.

Alla:
>
> Does it tell me that Snape favors Malfoy for any "legitimate"
> reason? He could of course, but I don't see it. I think he favors
> Malfoy to stay in Lucius good graces and maybe he even genuinely
> cares for the boy, but I don't see that he favors him because Malfoy
> is a good student, and especially an outstanding student.

Magpie:
No one is arguing that Snape favors Malfoy *because* he's a good student. 
We know Snape's favor of Malfoy is personal.  We're saying that he still 
also does well in his class, which isn't that remarkable. If he didn't, imo, 
Snape's favor would come across very differently.

-m