Etymology of 'Accio' and more

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 160852

> > SSSusan:
> > I do, yes.  Jim Dale pronounces Alicia Spinnet as 
> > "Ah-LEE-see-ah" but pronounces Lucius Malfoy as 
> > "LU-shuhs."  Shouldn't it be LU-see-uhs" to be 
> > consistent ...
> > 
> 
> bboyminn:
> 
> Well, blow me down, I always said 'Alih-Ka', but now that 
> you mention it, I suppose 'Ah-Lee-see-ah' probably is
> correct, and perhaps 'Ah-lee-she-ah' might be a close
> second.

Carol responds:
In English, "c" is usually soft before "i" or "e" and hard before "a",
"o", and "u." Geoff can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that
the Brits would say "LU-sees-us" and "A-LEE-see-uh." Americans,
however, tend to run "cius" and "cia" together into a single syllable,
"LU-shus" and "A-LEE-shuh." I've never heard of "cia" or "cius" being
pronounced with a hard "c" in modern English though the Romans may
have done so.

> bboyminn:
> 
> Upon looking in my dictionary, I find that nearly all 
> words starting with 'ACC...' are neither 'Ah-See...' nor 
> 'ACK-ee..'. In the example you gave 'accelerate', it is a
> combination of the two, as in 'ACK-see-oh'. So, I suspect
> that true to common English pronunciation, indeed, 
> 'ACK-see-oh' is probably correct. However, I admit to
> mentally saying 'Ah-see-oh' when I read it. <snip>

Carol responds:
I've already given my view that "c" was hard in Latin (except possibly
before "i"). The hard "c" followed by a soft "c" is a possible
pronunciation if JKR is thinking of English rather than Latin and the
"ch" pronunciation is possible if she's thinking of Church Latin. But
I can't think of a single instance in which double "c" is pronounced
"ss." (BTW, even though my name starts with a "c", I tend to think of
"c" as a superfluous letter, rather the way the English used to think
of "zed" or "z," which actually has its own specific sound and is in
no way redundant even though the "z" sound is sometimes spelled with
an "s." IMO, "c" ought to represent "ch" instead of duplicating "s"
and "k" and confusing everybody. The Romans didn't have a "k", so for
them, "c" served a purpose. End OT rant!)
> 
> > SSSusan:
> > ... I now know I was mispronouncing Felix Felicis [which
> > I said as "FEH-lih-kuhs" instead of as "Feh-LEASE-us"] 
> > and Knuts [which I said as "k'nuts" instead of as 
> > "k'noots"]. :-> )  

Carol:
Funny. I think that "Felix Felicis" *ought* to be pronounced more or
less as you pronounced it (with a hard "c"), but in my head it's Felix
"Feh-LISS-us." The "i" ought to have an "ee" sound either way, I
think--rather like the way "i" is pronounced in Spanish today. I think
the accent would be on the second syllable regardless. (Maybe Geoff
can remind us of the rules for accented syllables. I've forgotten them.)
> 
> bboyminn:
<snip>
> Knuts - as you [SSS] point out, they write "k'nut" but they 
> say 'ka-noot'. I say 'ka-nut'. In normal American
> English the 'K' in 'KN...' is always silent, but that 
> didn't seem appropriate for a work like 'Knut', so I 
> left the 'k' sound on.

Carol responds:
I think the website is right on this one. It's supposed to remind the
(English) reader of King Canute, he who supposedly ordered the waves
to obey him and got his feet wet to show a courtier that he wasn't
all-powerful. 

"Merry sungen the monkes in Ely
When Cnut King rowed thereby.
Row, cnichts, near the land
And hear we these monkes sing."

"Cnicht" or "knicht" was pronounced with an audible "k" and a gutteral
"ch." I believe this pronunciation was retained in Scots dialect. as
indicated by "Up and spak an eldern knicht, Sat at the king's richt
kne:" and so forth in "Sir Patrick Spens."

So "knut"/"Canute" makes sense to me (though I confess to pronouncing
it "nuts," with a short "u" and a silent "k" until I heard the
pronunciation on the website some time ago and made the connection). A
little private joke of JKR's, I suppose.

bboy: 
> Sirius - the pronunciation guide in my dictionary doesn't
> make a distinction between 'Sirius' and 'Serious', but I
> think there is a very subtle difference. Sirius is
> 'SEAR-ee-us' or 'SEAR-ee-ihs', where as Serious is 
> 'sear-ee-OUS'. Just a slightly different accent and 
> inflection at the end.

Carol:
As an American, I have Sirius problem with this one <wink>--not with
the accented syllable, which I'm sure is the first, or with the final
vowel, which I'm sure is a schwa (unaccented neutral vowel sounding
like "uh"), but with the initial vowel, which Brits say is different
from the long "es" sound in "serious." Can anyone give me a word with
a short "i" sound *followed by r* rather than some other consonant
that represents the "i" in "serious"? I think maybe the problem is
with "serious" itself being pronounced rather differently by Brits and
Americans. My gut feeling (probably wrong) is that Americans pronounce
both "serious" and "Sirius" the way that Brits pronounce "Sirius," and
the Brits pronounce "serious" with a stronger, longer "ee" sound. I'm
thinking that the first syllable of "cirrus" (as in cirrus cloud)
illustrates the sound I hear in both "serious" and "Sirius." Is that
what anybody else hears?

At any rate, not hearing the difference makes it difficult for me to
appreciate the Prime Minister's mispronunciation, "Serious Black."
It's not funny to me because I see, erm, hear no difference.

bboy:
> Madame Maxime - is completely mispronunced and misspelled.
> They say and write 'MaxiNe'; note the 'N' instead of the
> 'M'. I say 'MAX-seaM'. The real problem is with her first
> name which I believe is 'Olympe'. Having no experience 
> with the French Language beyond French Toast and French 
> Fries, I've never been sure about this one. I generally 
> say 'OH-limp-ee' as if I were mispronuncing 'Olympia' but
> without the 'A' at the end. I suppose if I tried to put 
> some fancy sounding inflection on the end, it would be 
> 'OH-limp-ay'.

Carol:
I'll leave authoritative discussion of this one to the people who took
French rather than Latin as their foreign language. I think, though,
that it's "muh-DAHM Max-EEM" and something like "oh-LAMP." So, IMO,
movie!Hagrid isn't too far off (unlike book!Hagrid, whose "bong sewer"
even I found funny).
> 
bboy:
> Rufus Scrimgeour - Again, it seems like a French
> pronunciation would be correct, but we Americans have
> never let that get in our way. I say, 'ROO-fuss Scrim-gouwer'
('gouw' rhymes with 'cow' but with a slightly elongated inflection,
hence the 'ou', and with a 'g' not a 'j' sound).

Carol:
I don't know about French, but in English, "g" follows the same rules
as "c": If it's followed by "e" or "i," it's soft. If it's followed by
"a", "o", or "u", it's hard. Compare "giraffe" and "gorilla," for
example, or "gelatin" and "gum." So, IMO, "geour" would be pronounced
"jur" or "zhur." I very much doubt that it's pronounced "gower."

Carol, with apologies for having been an English teacher for so long
and stepping out of McGonagall mode