Hiding from Voldmort / Moral Relativism (was:Re: witches of the world...

[Charles Walker Jr]

No: HPFGUIDX 160943

> > >>Betsy Hp:
> > > Okay, yes Molly is on the correct political side of the fence.
> > > She's not evil by any stretch.  Of course, it's not a hard
place
> > > for her to be.
> > > <snip>
>
> > >>Phoenixgod2000:
> > Of course it is a hard place for her to be! She is working
against
> > a man so bad people stutter through his name.  The easy path
would
> > be to sit through it and let it be someone elses problem.
>
> Betsy Hp:
> And um, what exactly is Molly doing?  You know, for the cause and
> all?  It's Arthur and Bill and Charlie who've chosen to join the
> Order and fight the fight.  Molly is there because her family is
> there.  She has not had to proactively *do* anything.
>
> Yes it's hard to realize that her family is out there and in
> danger.  But it's something that's happened to Molly.  It's not a
> choice she's made.
>

Charles:
By your argument here, we are to assume that Aberforth Dumbledore,
Hestia Jones, Emmeline Vance (before she got killed), and many other
members of the order are doing nothing simply because we are not
explicitly told their missions in canon? Unlikely. Simply because we
are not told Molly's activities it is *not* safe to assume that they
do not exist. I find it unlikely that any member of the Order of the
Phoenix just sits at home and twiddles their thumbs all the time.

Indeed, when Molly and Sirius are arguing, I am certain that he would
have returned one of her insults with "At least I have a reason for
sitting at home all the time." No, I think it is a good deal more
likely that Molly does things that we do not know about.

In OotP she is not idle, she is one of two adults in charge of what
we might term "stationkeeping" for the order. She, along with the
kids is attempting to make headquarters fit to occupy. She takes care
of the cooking for the order. These are things that the order needs
done and she is doing them. To draw a parallell, your argument is
like calling the support sections of a military cowards because they
aren't the ones wielding the weapons-which is ridiculous. A lot of
times that support staff comes under the same fire to provide the
fighting troops with their supplies and information.

And as far as it not being a choice she's made-how many people in the
wizarding world are members of the order? Madame Bones was a member
(returning from the original incarnation), IIRC, but we don't hear
about Susan Bones' parents being members It doesn't prove that they
are or not, only that Harry-who's not privy to all of the order's
secrets-does not have that information.

> > >>Phoenixgod2000
> > And for the record she is going against the tide of one of
her
> > most beloved son's and her goverment--the goverment that feeds
and
> > clothes her family.
>
> Betsy Hp:
> No she isn't.  The MoM and Percy are neither of them Voldemort
> supporters.  (I also suspect that Molly's most beloved sons are the
> twins.  Which, doesn't mean anything and is just IMO. <g>)
>

Charles:
Yes, actually she is, at least in OotP. Percy and the ministry may
not be pro-Voldie, but they *are* anti-Dumbledore-again, at least in
OotP. I think the favoritism she shows the twins in GoF will be shown
to Percy if he should make amends in 7. It's the "prodigal son"
effect, and as JKR is an admitted Christian, I can see her using it.

> > >>Phoenixgod2000:
> > they aren't the same.  Narcissa and her family is *evil*.  They
> > have lain in a nest of vipers and are now experiencing the venom.
> > <snip>
>
> Betsy Hp:
> They are not evil.  Some of their beliefs are.  And IMO, there's a
> huge difference.  After winning WWII, the Allies did not decide to
> execute every German soldier and the families that loved them.
> Because they recognized that the soldiers and their families were
> not evil in and of themselves.
>
Charles:
Here is where it falls down. What makes a person evil if it is not
their actions and ideas? Why is Dobby fearful of the Malfoy family? I
really can't accept any concept that Narcissa is not evil, because I
am dead certain that Lucius is not the only Malfoy to have abused
Dobby. No, I don't have explicit canon proof, just the fact that I
cannot see Lucius condescending to speak with Dobby to give him more
than one death threat a day.

If abusive racists are not evil in your opinion, then what the hell
is?

Betsy:
> I honestly don't think seeing the humanity in some members of the
> opposing side as moral relativism.  Not the way I understand that
> term, anyway.  I'd say saying that anything the bad side does is
bad
> (taking action to save their child's life) and anything the good
> side does is good (putting innocents in jail without trial) is more
> moral relativism.

I'd have to agree that your argument is not technically moral
relativism. I would have to qualify that by saying that I feel it is
a bit, well, confused.

Charles, who believes in evil because he believes in good.