Hiding from Voldemort/Moral Relativism (was:Re: witches of the world...)

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 160986

Alla:
> Hmmm, we shall see of course if Dumbledore indeed recognises all 
> irredemably evil people at the end of book 7. :)
> 
> Ssssssssss.

Jen: Yes, we shall see that Dumbledore was right about Snape. :) 
Hee, you know I'm teasing, some days I have my doubts. 

Alla: 
> Oh, absolutely. Hate them as I am, I totally understand the 
> possibility of Malfoys choosing  the right side later on. The 
> question is for me is where anything to admire about them **right 
> now**

Jen: Admire is a pretty strong word and as Hermione said, evil is as 
well.  Dumbledore's offer to Draco is more than simply saying: "I 
know one day you and your family can choose the right side and be 
good."  By making the offer at all he is saying: "I see good in you 
*now*. I see more good than you see yourself."

Alla: 
> But of course it is understandable to want your child to live, the
> problem for me is that as Phoenixgod said Narcissa could have
> asked Snape for **anything** in the third part of the Vow, she
> could have asked Snape to **save** Draco by any means, but she
> **still** asked for Snape to kill Dumbledore.

Jen: Although we don't know what Narcissa thinks, I believe this was 
an Either-Or situation in her mind, a zero sum game: Either Draco 
dies or Dumbledore dies. If Dumbledore doesn't die, Draco will. In 
her mind there are no shades of gray because Voldemort doesn't 
operate in shades of gray--one of these two people will die. 

We can think of all sorts of alternatives to the third clause in the 
Vow but Narcissa could not. 

Alla: 
> Sorry, Jen, I think Narcissa does show her evil nature here - not
> in trying to save her son ( as I said upthread, I find it 
> something very basic, but completely understandable), but in
> wishing for Dumbledore's death which IMO she could have done
> without.

Jen: If she was operating under the kind of thinking pattern above, 
she was indeed wishing Dumbledore would die so Draco could live. 
That's close to an impossible choice. 

Charles: (#160960)
> Dumbledore himself has shown that the good are not incorruptible by
> saying that he fell into the trap he foresaw. Was it evil not to
> tell Harry what he should have known years before until it was
> unavoidable? Yep. Not on the same scale, and done with the best of
> intentions, but yes it fell into the nature of an evil act. By not
> doing what he knew to be right he caused pain that might have been
> avoided. Not as evil as intentional torture or murder, but still
> there.

> I see evil and good sharing a spectrum rather than being either 
> distinct entities or even flip sides of the same coin.

Jen: Potterverse morality seems to be on this same spectrum, though 
there may be a difference in semantics.  JKR includes information 
such as: "the world isn't split into good people and Death Eaters" 
(OOTP chap. 14) and "Evil is a strong word" (HBP chap. 30).  If 
every mistake, missed opportunity, and poor choice rises to the 
level of evil then every character in Potterverse is guilty. There 
has to be a barometer at work here other than 'causing pain'. 

Jen, just trying to figure out Potterverse morality.