Dark Magic and Snape (was:Re: CHAPDISC: HBP24, Sectumsempra)

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 161377

Jen R: There's a definite connection between Voldemort and dark
> magic, and dark magic being at least one path to his service.
> Dumbledore tells Harry that despite his privileged insight into
> Voldemort's world, he's never been 'seduced by the Dark Arts,
> never, even for a second, shown the slightest desire to become one
> of Voldemort's followers.' (HBP, chap. 23)

Betsy Hp:
> Right, but Dumbledore's wrong about Harry's interest in the Dark
> Arts.  Harry tried to throw a Crucio in OotP.  That's why this
> statement confused me.  Does Dumbledore not know that Harry 
> reached for an Unforgivable when he was desperate?  Did JKR forget
> that she'd written that scene, or was Harry's failure good enough
> for her?

Jen: I read Dumbledore's quote as two separate issues:  First, Harry 
has privileged insight into Voldemort's world, something a DE would 
kill for, and that world includes followers seduced by the Dark 
Arts.  Second, Dumbledore does not believe Harry has been seduced by 
the Dark Arts to the extent that he has a desire to join Voldemort. 

Betsy Hp:
> I haven't seen anything to suggest he'd refuse to use an AK to
> kill Voldemort if given the opportunity.  So does that mean that
> the Unforgivables aren't really Dark Arts?  Is that what makes
> Dumbledore's statement correct?  And if so, then what *are* the
> Dark Arts?

Jen R: I also haven't seen any reason to believe Harry could 
complete a successful AK!  He doesn't study these spells or try to 
perfect them, as usual he's impulsively flinging things out in a 
tight spot, hoping something will stick.  I'm not ruling out a 
storyline with Harry being tempted to hurt/kill someone and having 
to choose, though that was well done with Draco already. Maybe JKR 
will go for the parallel between the two of them. 

Betsy Hp:
> Yes, I agree that we see Snape's growing anger and therefore his
> shaky ground.  But I just...  IIRC there's a healer whose portrait
> is hanging in St. Mungo's who invented a disembowelment curse. 
> Why asn't the invention of that curse a bad sign?  I'm just not
> seeing how someone learning that Snape invented the Sectumsempra
> curse could jump to the conclusion that this boy is evil.  Or eager
> to join Voldemort.  (Is the Durmstrang student body flocking to
> Voldemort's side?)

Jen: Snape is not only angry, he invented and perfected a spell that 
kills someone slowly by allowing them to bleed to death unless a 
countercurse is administered. I called Snape's situation shaky 
ground instead of evil because we have no idea whether he actually 
used this spell on someone or trained others to use it or what.  
Snape *did* take a more active role in learning Dark Arts than Harry 
unless he just needed to know some Latin to invent the spell. I'm 
not saying Sectumsempra is on the level of an Unforgiveable, there 
is a countercurse and Harry wasn't sent to Azkaban.  

(I thought the disembowlment curse was a misguided attempt to cure 
some ill in the same way people thought blood letting or drilling 
holes in the skull would cure a disease, i.e, pretty rudimentary 
<g>).  

Betsy Hp:
> But it's the lack of precise definition that I'm harping on.  And 
> honestly, I don't think it's a *bad* thing that the Dark Arts or 
> dark magic is hard to define.  It's a bit more realistic, IMO.
> But it also means that it's harder to judge someone based on 
> their interests.  

Jen R.:  Yeah, I'd like a definition, too.  Mostly what I do is make 
assumptions:  Some combination of things said by Dumbledore, 
Hermione and Harry are *mostly* true because those are JKR's chosen 
ones when it comes to telling the story.   Some things will prove 
false and those will be the 'aha' moment in book 7.  Pretty deep 
analysis, eh? 

Betsy hp: 
> And I worry that JKR is trying to eat her cake and have it too.  
> She's shaky on what exactly dark magic is, but she'll have 
> McGonagall praise Dumbledore for not using some unnamed powers.  
> She'll have Harry think about how he despises Draco for Draco's 
> interest in "dark magic" without any indication of what exactly 
> Draco has expressed interest in.  (Somehow I doubt Harry caught 
> Draco pouring over books telling him how to create a horcrux.)

Jen R: Maybe Harry will find out Draco wasn't the one to Imperio 
Rosmerta, can't actually cast a Crucio, isn't a full-fledged 
Voldemort follower with a Dark Mark--I think those were supposed to 
be the reasons Harry determined Draco was going down the dark magic 
road, learning from Bella?  New information could change his 
thinking. 

Jen R.