[HPforGrownups] Dark Magic and Snape (was:Re: CHAPDISC: HBP24, Sectumsempra)

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 161411

a_svirn:
Oh, sorry I misunderstood what you were saying. I guess I got confused 
because you said earlier that "sometimes the idea of Snape being drawn by 
knowledge is separated from Voldemort's Pureblood agenda when it's not". Yet 
if he was tempted by the usual pureblood claptrap then his motivation is
not much different from, say,  McNair's or Grayback's. In which case, I'd 
say, we can definitely separate it from more "noble" thirst for knowledge. 
"Quasi-immortality" does not require any special
knowledge - it's a pretty basic stuff about survival.

Magpie:
I phrased it badly.  Basically I do think that Snape has a thirst for 
knowledge based on what we've seen about him, but I don't think his reasons 
for joining the DEs are very different from those others.  I think there's a 
common fanfic impulse to separate Snape as much as possible from anything 
unattractive about DEs, and often this is done by starting with the idea 
that Snape wasn't attracted to the DEs for anything violent, destructive or 
racist, but because Voldemort offered him a chance to find knowledge. I 
don't think Snape's motives for joining the DEs were noble, though his 
reasons for leaving them could have been.

Betsy Hp:
Well, both men are humans in each scene.  So neither could be called a "Dark 
Creature".  Or, I suppose you could, but they aren't lost in their 
bloodlust, a creature of dark instinct.  They're human and so
capable of darkness, but not dark by definition. So I'd say Grayback, in his 
desire to eat Dumbledore as a human not a werewolf, is actually the darker 
of the two.  (This presupposes a good Lupin.)

[...]

> Hmm, but werewolves are driven by a perverse sort of hunger.  Sharks > 
> kill to eat and to survive.  But werewolves kill or bite to cause > pain. 
> I don't get the sense that their urge to hunt is driven by > hunger or 
> survival instincts.  <snip>

a_svirn:
Actually, from what we can see in canon werewolves attack because are 
rendered insane by their illness. They do not *consciously* want to cause 
pain; they simply have certain cravings and act on instinct,
much like sharks. Maybe it's not exactly a *survival* instinct, but it's 
still an instinct, not an *intent*.

Magpie:
I agree--but to address what Betsy said in those first sentences, I think 
"werewolf" refers to a man who changes into a wolf etc., so Lupin actually 
is a Dark creature whether he's human or not.  An actual wolf, even a rabid 
one, would not be a Dark Creature, I don't think, just an animal.  It may 
almost be thought of as a possession--the regular human is possessed by this 
dark spirit that causes it to do things, and thus becomes a Dark Creature as 
well.

But as you said, werewolves have no intent any more than a rabid wolf would. 
I feel like it's not so much that Fenrir is any darker a creature than 
Lupin. They're both equally dark because they're both werewolves. But Fenrir 
is more...bad?  Does that word work?  He's a Dark Creature with good morals, 
Fenrir is a Dark Creature with bad morals.

-m