JKR and the boys

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 161433

> >>Miles:
> After watching the PoA film again, I stumbled about a scene quite 
> at the beginning that is not in the book. It's the scene where the 
> boys have fun in the dormitory, imitating animals and having a    
> small pillow fight afterwards. That's a nice insight in           
> the "private life" of Harry and his friends - and that's the      
> point, I really miss that in the books.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I really, really agree here, Miles.  Actually, based on the books, 
Harry has very few friends.  He's not friends with Neville, Dean or 
Seamus.  He barely knows the names of people in his house outside of 
his quidditch teammates and year.  He doesn't know the names of 
people his age but not in his house.  (There's a fanfic out there 
where Harry's cluelessness about his fellow students is a bit of a 
running joke.  It's funny because it's canon.)

> >>Miles:
> That leads to my thesis:
> JKR does not understand boys well and has great difficulties      
> describing them and their full emotional and social capacities. On 
> the other hand, her description of girls is much more realistic    
> and comprehensive.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Oh dear.  And see, I thought JKR was doing a better job with the 
boys. <g>  Though, honestly, the things that annoy me about JKR's 
main female characters are still true to certain kinds of girls.  So 
maybe you're right.

It did bother me recently that Harry didn't worry about Dean at all 
when he and Ginny first kissed.  I really thought that was an 
example of bad conduct as per the guy code of behavior.  (But, I'll 
defer to greater experts here. <g>)

> >>Miles:
> He [Harry] has very few friends, and he seems not to be interested 
> in students apart from those who are his friends. This is shown   
> differently in the films, by the way. What makes this situation   
> unrealistic IMO is Harry's past until he came to Hogwarts. He had 
> a very hard time not only at the Dursley's, but at elementary     
> school as well. A person being bullied so much will most probably
> develop good knowledge of human nature - especially a bright boy  
> like Harry. It's vital for him to understand people and to "read   
> their minds" in order to find out who will harm him and who will   
> not. JKR seems to have left out the emotional and social          
> intelligence in her "Harry Potter" character.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Harry's intelligence does go a bit wobbly at times.  Frankly, I 
think it's for plot purposes.  There are times JKR needs Harry to 
not notice something, and so he doesn't.  Even though he'd have to 
be stupid not to.  Not knowing the names of students he's been 
having classes with for several years is a prime example.

The fact that first year Harry didn't figure out Draco's social 
group (to better identify possible foes) is a bit strange too, I 
think.  That Harry didn't pick up the social hierarchy in the 
Griffindor Common Room is odd.  Though I suppose one could argue 
that by being taken under the Weasley family wing Harry knew all of 
the hierarchy he needed to know.

So for the most part, I'm agreeing with you.  But it's all about to 
come crashing down. <g>

> >>Miles:
> On the other side - Hermione Granger. She is extremely intelligent 
> and the academic star of Hogwarts. Additionally, she seems to be   
> very good at understanding people. She is the person who explains 
> everything to Harry when he is clueless again. She seems to have   
> very close friendships with several girls including Ginny, she is 
> very clever at sorting out emotional and romantic relationships   
> between girls and boys.

Betsy Hp:
First of all, Hermione doesn't have any female friends.  Ginny comes 
the closest (and I'll guess that Hermione would call Ginny her best 
girlfriend) but Ginny is a very far second to Ron and Harry.  Ginny 
might tell Hermione everything.  Hermione does not return the favor.

And I don't think Hermione understands people at all.  I think she's 
quick at picking up on other clues, but I don't think she really 
understands what motivates people or how they operate.  Hermione has 
too often said the exact wrong thing for me to be impressed with her 
social skills.

As to her sorting out Harry's love life:  I think she picked up all 
of her information on Cho either in the girls' restroom (*prime* 
source of that sort of gossip) or may have quizzed Lavender and 
Parvati.  But I'm quite sure Hermione did not figure out all of 
Cho's issues on her own.

I do think Hermione hoped for Ginny and Harry to get together and 
did her best to help that relationship along.  But not because she 
had such a keen insight into either Harry or even Ginny for that 
matter.

> >>Miles:
> She even seems to understand Harry's emotions better than Harry   
> himself, Consequentially she is Harry's main advisor.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I've always felt Ron was more up on the proper care and feeding of 
Harry.  Hermione is more often clueless about what Harry is stressed 
about and how to relieve that stress, and Ron has to step in.

Actually, I've gotten the impression that of the trio, Ron is the 
better at figuring people out.  I don't think Hermione sees it, but 
I think Ron is written as more often correctly identifying the 
emotional sense of those around him.

> >>Miles:
> <snip>
> Ron is described as a total fool concerning his social and        
> emotional relationships. Yes, that Ron who is one of seven        
> children with uncounted relatives. Ron who as all children with    
> many siblings had to learn social interactions very, very early - 
> but he didn't.

Betsy Hp:
Hmm, see I think Ron is described as a fool by *Hermione*, but I 
think the way the books play out, Ron really is the knowledgable one 
when it comes to social and emotional relationships.  Ron is 
incredibly unsure of himself.  And I think he believes Hermione when 
she shuts him down (or he did anyway), but I'm hopeful that he'll 
come into his own in book 7.  For Harry's sake as well as his own.

> >>Miles:
> <snip>
> Harry and Ron are tumbling from black to white and back, while    
> Hermione seems to know all shades of grey and deals with most     
> emotional situations like an expert.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I would say the DA club was an example of Hermione *not* dealing 
well with shades of grey, and *not* understanding the emotional 
situations of the people in the club.  The problem is that Hermione 
*thinks* she knows this stuff.  But she doesn't.  (Her handling of 
the centaurs is another example.)

Of course, that's what I'm *hoping* is going on.  If you're right, 
if Hermione is supposed to be as good as she thinks she is, than I 
will say that I think JKR has fallen down in her portayal of girls 
as well as boys.  Because Hermione (like Ginny) will have stepped 
fully formed from JKR's head.  Without any vulnerabilities or weak 
spots to outgrow Hermione becomes a flat and annoying character.

I tend to give JKR more of a pass with the boys because they do have 
weaknesses to overcome.

Betsy Hp