Dark Magic and Snape / Dark Creatures

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 161557

> Carol:
> What if "Unforgiveable" means something more
> than a lifetime sentence to Azkaban (which would hardly serve as a
> deterrent after a person has cast one Unforgiveable).
> 
> a_svirn:
> Actually, it would. You'd be hard put to find a better deterrent. 

Carol again:
I disagree. Once you've cast a single Unforgiveable, whether it's
Imperius, Cruciatus, or AK, you've sentenced yourself to Azkaban.
There's nothing whatever to deter you from casting as many additional
Unforgiveables as you choose, assuming that your moral standards are
shaky or nonexistent, and presumably it gets easier each time. If
Draco had succeeded in killing a weakened Dumbledore, what would keep
him from killing or Crucioing other people? In fact, even his Crucio
of Harry would have sentenced him to Azkaban had it succeeded,
removing any effect the threat of Azkaban may have had on his decision
not to kill Dumbledore (which leads me to believe that it wasn't Draco
who Imperio'd Rosmerta. That alone would have removed the deterrent
effect of the threat of Azkaban, as well as any natural hesitation to
cast a really Dark curse considered by the WW to be Unforgiveable).
> 
> Carol:
> Bellatrix says
> that you have to *mean* the Unforgiveable Curses, and surely it's
> important that she's such an expert at casting the Cruciatus Curse
and Harry failed to cast one effectively. 
> 
> a_svirn:
<snip> As far as I can see all magic is *intentional*, so to speak,
except for the times when it isn't. In those cases it's called
Accidental Magic. Which lives us with a kind of circular definition:
Dark Magic is magic performed with dark intentions. Not exactly helpful. 

Carol:
I think it's quite helpful, at least for a start. Dark magic is,
apparently, magic performed with the intent to harm or some other evil
motive--for example, the unnatural extension of life or denial of
death--which, BTW, requires harm to others, blood from one living
person, flesh from another, and bone from a dead man. The other
restorative potion (the one that created Fetal!mort) required unicorn
blood, which involves the death of something innocent. Sectumsempra
was dark because it required the intent to harm (Harry wasn't
innocently playing around with a friend; he knew it was "for enemies")
and/or because its purpose is to harm. The same with the curses on the
opal necklace and the ring Horcrux, the intention and power to harm or
kill. In contrast, memory charms, however much we all despise them,
were not created and are not normally used with the intent to harm. In
fact, they're often used (condescendingly, to be sure) to "help"
Muggles deal with what they ostensibly can't cope with or understand,
such as attacks by dragons or giants or being "blown up" by your
sister-in-law's nephew.
> 
> Carol:
> Maybe Dark magic has the potential to corrupt the user, to turn him
> evil or to lead him into an obsession with some unnatural goal, such
> as immortality or control over others' minds.
> 
> a_svirn:
> Maybe. But it seems to me that this hypothesis it at odds with your 
> earlier statement about the importance of intent. Is Voldemort dark 
> because he *means* to be dark, or has he just sort of tumbled into
it without really meaning to? 

Carol:
In his case, he was already corrupted by Dark magic, or by the desire
to perform it, before he even knew he was a wizard. But I think that
someone like Barty Jr. would become progressively more evil (or
psychotic) the more Unforgiveables he performed. Surely, helping to
Crucio the Longbottoms into insanity required intent to harm but also
harmed Barty himself in some way. We talk about "hardened criminals,"
but they don't start out hardened, however much they desire to harm
others. They have to act on those desires first, and for Barty and the
other Death Eaters, and potentially for Draco and even Harry, the
Unforgiveable Curses provided the means to the end. They succumbed to
the temptation to use them and so they fell into evil, perhaps
irredeemable evil (which is why I'm so concerned for snape now that
he's cast an AK, but that's another thread).

Voldemort is dark because he wished to harm others, succeeded in doing
so and took pleasure in it, and promoted his own lust for power and
immortality with no concern for others. The magic he used is dark
because it requires dark motives like his and either harms others or
promotes unnatural ends by unnatural means, with Horcruxes being the
prime example.

Carol, feeling that she's further muddied the waters rather than
clearing away the Darkness