Harry's happy death (Was Re: Harry, Sirius Black, and the power of posses

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 161692


Sarah wrote:
> I never figured Harry for a suicide risk, I think he will go down
> fighting.  In the examples we have so far of him accepting his
> imminent death, this is always the case.
> 
> Do you think his life is unhappy?  I don't.  Perhaps it was before
age 11, but in the years since then he's grown to be vibrant,
motivated, clever, accomplished and surrounded by successful
relationships.  More than a lot of people get to do in 80 years.

Carol responds:
Harry has moments when he's happy, mostly during Quidditch games and
during his brief relationship with Ginny in HBP (or so JKR tells us
rather than showing us). But his expressed desire is to be "just
Harry" and get rid of his celebrity status and the burdens of being
first the Boy who Lived and now the Chosen One. See his flare-up at
Ron when he hits him in the forehead to give him the scar he
supposedly wants. He'd trade lives with Ron in a second. 


> Sarah:
> A few points here.  I don't know about "joyfully."  "Acceptingly"
> perhaps.  The way he was in OotP, or in GoF when he wanted to die
> facing the enemy like his father, or in CoS when he tries to put his
> affairs in order to the best of his ability in the time he has left.
> 
> Of course he will make his best effort to both defeat Voldemort and
> survive.  Both simply may not be possible, and if he must choose...
> (not that he may get a choice at all).

Carol responds:
Certainly, he'll need to accept the possibility of death. He's already
done so. And he'll demonstrate the willingness to sacrifice himself as
his mother did, bringing the book full circle. But that doesn't mean
he has to die in the process. He's Harry, not Lily. The Boy who Lived,
the one who can defeat Voldemort. You may want him to die heroically,
but James did that. I'd much rather that he survived, and I'd be
willing to bet that more than half the adult fans and the vast
majority of child fans feel the same way.

> Sarah:
> Dumbledore did not give up his life to save Harry.  Dumbledore gave up
> his life to advance his strategy to destroy Voldemort.  A death that
> is worthy of the hero Dumbledore is surely worthy of the hero Harry.

Carol:
Actually, Dumbledore's death is rather pointless unless Harry triumphs
(though he was also, IMO, dying to save Draco and Snape). And Harry's
death would be pointless, period. It's his victory that counts. A
"worthy" death is better than a dishonorable death, but life, for most
of us, including Harry, is better than both.
> 
Sarah:
> I'm sure Sirius wasn't thinking "I'd like to die today" but he went
> down fighting evil, which Dumbledore says he would have wanted.  I
> think Harry would rather die with his boots on, as well.

Carol:
It's Hagrid who says that Sirius would have wanted to die fighting,
and Harry responds by saying that Sirius didn't want to die at all.
And look at the life *he* was living, trapped in his parents' horrible
house with Kreacher for company. Harry has a lot more than that to
live for, including his friends and Ginny and his ambition to be an
Auror. Once Harry is free of the burden of his destiny, he can be what
he wants to be, an ordinary wizard, especially if the death of
Voldemort takes away those unnatural powers (Parseltongue and whatever
else he inherited: I'm sure that possession, a power peculiar to
Voldemort in the HP books, is one of the powers transferred to Harry
and that he'll use it in Book 7).

Sarah:
> And now, Harry's parents.  Consider the way the first war ended.  If
> it weren't for the Horcruxes, the first Voldemort war would have
been  the only Voldemort war, and we'd be reading "Lily Potter and
the..." I believe this, the first thing in the series, is one of the
most powerful motifs and must be mirrored at the end in some way for
> symmetry.

Carol
As I said, we'll see the symmetry in Harry's willingness to sacrifice
himself. No need for Harry to die, too, to satisfy that particular
structural need.

> Sarah:
> But who's to say any of them won't be toast as well by that point?
> It's a war, people gotta die.

Carol:
People will certainly die, but if we want a bloodbath, we can watch
horror movies or play video games. A few deaths will move the reader
to tears. A bloodbath will leave the reader numb. I suspect that we'll
lose Hagrid and the Weasley Twins, along with a few people who are
mostly names and some baddies, such as Bella or Lucius. That's
sufficient, thank you. Tragedy becomes travesty if you push it too far.
> 
> Sarah:
> Again, I don't know about "merrily dancing."  But I do think that
> Harry will be successful in his endeavor, and he'll be welcomed as a
> hero wherever he goes, including behind the veil.  If the other dead
> people wanted him to live longer, there's not much they can do about
> it is there?  I think they'll be happy to be reunited with him
whether he's 18 or 80.

Carol:
As I said, I expect him to enter the Veil and come out again,
Orpheuslike. But he'll leave Eurydice, I mean Sirius, behind (or bring
his body out for burial, as foreshadowed with Cedric).

> Sarah:
<snip> I think Harry is living now.  I think he's got a lot on his
mind, but I don't think his life is some oppressive burden.  I think
he already gets a lot of enjoyment from his relationships and
adventures and successes.

Carol:
If he's living now, then the Prophecy has it all wrong: "Neither can
live while the other survives." As I understand it, Voldemort isn't
living because he's lost his humanity and most of his soul. Harry
isn't living because to the WW, the important thing about him is his
past and his scar, and now he's the Chosen One. In order to be a real
boy, I mean a normal young wizard, he has to get rid of that scar (or
at least the powers inside it and the connection to Voldemort) and the
burden of his destiny.

Sarah:
  If he survives the war, he wants to be an Auror.  Being an Auror is
not exactly sitting on the porch drinking lemonade.  His dreams are to
fight evil and have  drama and battles and conflict.  So, he won't be
missing out on too much if he goes taking out the darkest wizard in a
hundred years.

Carol:
Taking out Voldemort will make fighting other Dark wizards seem easy,
and he can do it using the usual methods, not the special powers that
make him Voldemort's nemesis. He and Ron will finally be on equal
terms. I think they'd both like that.

> Sarah:
> Heh.  I actually believe Snape will be the one to (inadvertently)
> deliver the mortal wound to Harry.  He'll be trying to help at the
> time, though.

Carol:

Oh, aagh. The last thing I want is for Snape to accidentally kill
Harry. He's already killed Dumbledore. That's enough of a burden for
him to carry. I'd much prefer for them to finally reach some sort of
understanding and for Harry to realize that he needs Snape's help at
some point in order to defeat Voldemort. IMO, Harry needs to forgive
him if he's going to use Love as a weapon against Voldemort (no, I
don't want him to forgive Voldemort!). Harry needs to love the WW
enough to be willing to die for it, but he has to overcome hatred and
the desire for revenge first. As for Snape, I want him to be redeemed,
if necessary a Boromir-style death, but preferably a chance to live
and use his talents for the good of the WW.

Carol, who understands that different readers have different
preferences, but definitely dosn't share yours