[HPforGrownups] Why Cruciatus? (A question about Dear Bella)

[elfundeb]

No: HPFGUIDX 161708

On 11/19/06, Eric Oppen <technomad at intergate.com> wrote:

>   So why, if the Lestranges were just after the current location of their
> Lord
> and Master, would they go to the risk of using Crucio, when they could
> just
> Imperius the Longbottoms and be a lot surer of getting the truth out of
> them? I don't know about _you,_ but if I were being tortured, or even
> seriously threatened with torture, for information, I'd start lying like a
>
> cheap carpet---"Okay, okay, you big meanies, I'll talk! Voldemort's
> currently in North Korea!" And then watch as they ran off to P'yongyang.
>

Debbie:
I'll take the easy question first.  I'll bet Frank is a rotten liar.  When
have we caught Neville in a lie?  He doesn't even try.  Not even when
self-interest would dictate that he conceal the truth, like the password
episode in PoA.  Like father, like son.


Eric Oppen:


>   If someone was to put me under the Imperius, OTOH, I wouldn't have any
> choice but to tell the truth. That would remove the risk to my
> interrogators of me making something up to make them lay off me for a
> while,
> as well as leaving me undamaged. Imperius, combined with a quick Memory
> Charm, would seem to be far more useful than Cruciatus, even without the
> factor of possibly damaging my mind so badly that I _couldn't_ tell them
> what they wanted to know.
>

Debbie:
This is an old argument.  Very old.  Back before the dawn of time the
argument was made, and I objected:

IMO someone can be forced to talk, i.e. words can
be put in the victim's mouth, but I don't think you can point your wand at
someone, say "Imperio" and "tell the truth!" Crouch Jr. states, "I kept him
alive, under the Imperius Curse. I wanted to be able to question him. . . .
I also needed his hair to make the Polyjuice Potion." I read this sentence
to mean that Crouch needed to keep Moody alive and that he used Imperius to
control him and keep him from getting out of the trunk. I don't think this
statement means that Crouch used Imperius to force the truth out of Moody.
Instead, I think Crouch used Ennervate when he wanted to talk to Moody, and
perhaps Veritaserum (he had access to Snape's storeroom) to get truthful
answers when he needed them.>>

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/38981

I backpedaled on the Veritaserum part, but I'm still not convinced that
Imperius can be used like truth serum.  I'm hung up on the idea that you can
use Imperius to force someone to do something if you don't know what the
something is.  I suppose one could counter that Barty Jr. Imperius'd Crouch
Sr. and made go about his business as usual.  But he was still a bit wooden
at times, as though there was some uncertainty about what "normal" was
(Percy said he hadn't been himself since the Quidditch World Cup).

Eric Oppen:

>   So why did Bella, Rudy and Barty do what they did? About the only thing
> I
> can think of is that they were mainly after payback---IOW, my old "Frank
> Longbottom was Judge Dredd On Acid!" theory. We know that by the end of
> Vold War I, the Ministry was just about as ruthless as the DEs, and used a
>
> lot of the same tactics.
>

Debbie:
Yep.  I can definitely buy payback as the motive.  And, unless the Pensieve
Four were arrested en route to Albania, frustration at the failure of the
mission to produce the desired information.

Debbie
trying to remember what The Night the Jabberknoll Screamed was all about


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