Snape and Karkaroff

[potioncat]

No: HPFGUIDX 161726


> 
> Carol responds:
> I think your first instinct is correct, only I always read it as an
> act of courage and loyalty on Snape's part rather than the desire 
for
> DD's protection, whereas Karkaroff is clearly a coward. "Flee, then!
> Flee!" to me shows Snape's contempt, and "I will make your excuses" 
is
> just "Don't worry. I'll cover up for you."

Potioncat:
Well, as a DDM!Snaper, so do I, but I always thought he was 
suggesting DD would offer safety.

Carol:
> 
> Karkaroff is clearly terrified of Voldemort and the DEs he betrayed
> (even though only one, Rookwood, actually was arrested because of
> him). I doubt very much that he's at Hogwarts on Voldemort's orders;
> Dumbledore invited him as part of his attempt to unite the three
> schools against Voldemort. 

Potioncat:
I meant, was it possible Karkaroff was at Durmstrang on LV's orders. 
Did LV want loyal followers placed in schools of Magical Education as 
a way of influencing the next generation? In that case, Snape would 
be implying that he was staying at his post (Hogwarts) as Karkaroff 
should stay at his post; but if Karkaroff should flee, Snape would 
explain.  Before HBP I've always thought Snape would explain to DD 
why Karkaroff left. Come to think of it, he could mean both.

Carol:
> So I seriously doubt that Snape is posing as a loyal DE for 
Karkaroff.
> I think that Karkaroff appeals to him for help for the opposite
> reason; he knows (as, I think, does Barty Jr.) that Snape is loyal 
to
> Dumbledore. And I think that Barty has mentioned where Snape's
> loyalties lie in his communications with LV (the eagle owl, 
remember?).

Potioncat:
I'm not sure what IK thinks about Snape being at Hogwarts. How many 
DEs knew that Snape was placed at Hogwarts by LV? IK outed Snape 
after Snape went to Hogwarts. As far as Barty goes, I think he sees 
Snape as a DE who walked free. Snape's statement, "DD trusts me" does 
not say where his own loyalties lie. He could still make it sound pro-
LV or pro-DD depending on where he was.


>Carol: 
> Of course, Snape explains it all away after he "returns" to 
Voldemort,
> but I see no reason why he'd pretend to be a loyal DE for 
Karkaroff's
> benefit since Igor is a traitor himself.


Potioncat:
A couple of thoughts that developed after I first posted. No matter 
where Snape is, or who he is talking to, he has to play it close. He 
has to be able to easily switch meanings. And this is true whether he 
is DDM!Snape, ESE!Snape or OFH!Snape. It's true whether he's with an 
Order member or a DE.

Karkaroff betrayed his fellow DEs after LV's downfall. Yet he seems 
to be on good terms with Lucius. Draco says he almost went to 
Durmstrang, so whatever he's heard about Karkaroff has been positive 
or neutral, but not negative. Snape would have to think that IK would 
betray anyone to get on LV's good side if the opportunity came up. So 
I don't think he would be openinly and fully DDM with Karkaroff. 
However, he would still be ambiguous, because he has to protect his 
cover.

Another thought I've had---oh my, two in one day!---is that I think 
JKR sees each of the books as individual books. I think we fans tend 
to see it all as a continuing story. Yes, characters move around from 
book to book, but she has a purpose for characters within a book.  I 
think Karkaroff's role was to make Snape look shady. We knew IK had 
been a DE, we find out Snape had been a DE--then we see them having 
mysterious conversations. Snape bacame one of many suspects in the 
Case of who put Harry's name in the Goblet.

Potioncat, who is now picturing Snape singing "The Orange and the 
Green" by the Irish Rovers---"I played the flute or played the harp, 
depending where I was." or, more likely, "And me being strictly 
neurtral, bashed everyone in sight."