Kreacher the Plot Device Elf (was: Potter...wealth - ...Nature of Elves)

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 161744

---  "sistermagpie" <belviso at ...> wrote:
>
> > > Magpie:
> > > I can't help but be a little amused at your 
> > > continually calling Kreacher useless given how much
> > > he affected the plot. ...
> > > 
> > 
> > bboyminn:
> > 
> > Oh, Kreacher was a very valuable plot-device, and I
> > don't think that aspect of his role is over. He still
> > has a few stashed trinkets that he needs to reveal. 
> > 
> > It is as a house-elf that I think he is worthless 
> > regardless of who he is currently working for. ...
> 
> Magpie:
> That's exactly what I'm disagreeing with--what makes 
> Kreacher so worthless as a house-elf?  Because he's 
> too old to work well and is stubborn about helping the
> people he must help? Isn't that kind of a 
> harsh view of house-elves?  ...
> 

bboyminn:

You actually touch on the heart of the matter near the
end of your post. I will make a few (hopefully) brief 
comments and then jump to that crucial part.

At to the above, because he can't and won't work is 
precisely why he is a bad house-elf. If you hire a maid
to take care of your house, and she is ill-tempered,
slightly mad (nutty), spends her time eating you food
drinking your drink and watching TV, and is generally
uncooperative and irascible, then I would say that 
she is certainly a worthless House-Maid.

Kreacher does nothing to earn his keep. Regardless of
whether any one is currently residing at Grimmauld Place
or not, it is Kreachers JOB to maintain the house and 
the possessions contained there in. He has let the house
go to virtual ruin, and that doesn't indicate much
actual loyalty to his original Masters. 


> Steve: 
> > Yes, if Harry is living alone, he doesn't really need a 
> > house-elf, but if he is running the headquarter for the
> > Order, and is playing host to the Dursleys, I don't see 
> > him up to cooking big meals for gangs of people....
> 
> Magpie:
> I don't really see Harry running the Order or the 
> Order's hotel in Book VII. If there's anyone staying at
> Grimmauld Place presumably the same person would do the 
> cooking as always--Molly.  ...
> 

bboyminn:

I don't think it is a matter of people /staying/ at
Grimmauld Place. It is a matter of people stopping off 
there on business and staying for lunch or dinner. We
see precisely this happening in the last two books. 
People are in and out of headquarters all the time, and
common courtesy implies that a reasonable amount of 
hospitality be extended to them.

Harry may or may not become the Head of the Order. 
Personally, I think he will be the defacto behind the
scenes guiding force, though I think officially Moody
will be designated as 'Head'. Without Dumbledore to 
give their purpose and guide their actions, I think the
Order will be somewhat lost.

Right now the only person with a true purpose toward
bringing down Voldemort is Harry, so the Order will 
gravitate toward assisting Harry. Harry needs training
and he needs information. Certainly Moody can guide the
more mundane tasks of the Order, but who else but Harry
to guide the broader more general task and purpose of the
Order?

Now some will certainly object saying that Harry can't
or won't reveal his secrets to anyone, but he doesn't 
have to. Dumbledore certainly  guided the Order and he
kept plenty of secrets. It is all based on a 'need to 
know' basis. Harry only need tell people what they need
to know to accomplish one small task. They don't need
to necessarily know the larger objective. That is very
common in both business and the Military. Rank and file
'soldiers' simply don't need to know.

Bill can teach Harry curse breaking without knowing 
specifically at that time why Harry thinks he need to 
know curse breaking. Moody can teach him Offensive and
Defensive Spell without knowing why, though the reason
in this case is pretty obvious. Lupin can help hone 
Harry's Legilimency and Occlumency skill, plus his 
non-verbal spell casting skills. Again, they only need
to know the immediate task, not the long term objective.

So, yes, I very much do see many from the Order being
at Grimmauld Place at meal time. 

Also, as to Molly's presence, certainly being an Order
member she will be there a lot, but I think one of the
reasons why Harry stays at Grimmauld Place rather than
the Burrow, is to get away from Molly. She tends to
Mother Harry and that is certainly going to be 
restrictive given what Harry has to do. He needs to act
independantly, and he can do that at the Black House.

> Steve:
> > So regardless of whether Kreacher is /capable/ of 
> > beinga good house-elf, I don't think he is. He isn't
> > keeping up the Black House, we never see him cook or
> > clean, and he isn't faithfully serving his Master, 
> > and they can't let him go because he knows too much. 
> > All in all, as an Elf, I say pretty worthless, ...
> 
> Magpie:
> But is that all the worth of a house elf?  I just have 
> a hard time applying the word "worthless" to someone 
> because they're unable to cook and clean-... His mind is
> still intact ... if you define house-elf strictly as the
> luxuries they're supposed to provide ... he's worthless
> to Harry. If you define house-elf as the sentient race 
> to which Kreacher happens to belong I think he's got a 
> lot of worth.  ...
> -m
>


bboyminn:

Now we are at the heart of it. We are using different
definitions of House-Elf. Kreacher is worthless at his
job; simple as that. True everyone has /some/ worth.
Contract murderers are worth while to someone, but they 
are not worth while to society as a whole. From a 
spiritual sense, even the very worst of us has some
spiritual worth, but at the same time very little 
practical worth. That is Kreacher, we may be able to 
assign some philisophical or abstact spiritual worth
to him, but in a practical sense, he is beyond worthless
and is actually dangerous to the people who count.

Keep in mind that it is house-elves who have set the 
standard for service, loyalty, and fealty. Kreacher 
provides none of those things, he falls far short of
the common standards for house-elves, and in that
sense, he is both worthless and dangerous. But again,
as a plot device, he is incredably valuable.

Just passing it along.

Steve/bboyminn