[HPforGrownups] Re: Why Cruciatus? (A question about Dear Bella)

[elfundeb]

No: HPFGUIDX 161771

>
>   Mike:
>
> I too think there is something wrong with it but for a different
> reason. It starts with Barty Sr's pronouncement at the trial:
>
> "...subjecting him to the Cruciatus Curse, believing him to have
> knowledge of the present whereabouts of your exiled master,..."
> (GoF p.595, US)
>
> Dumbledore adds to this perception when telling Harry:
>
> "He and his wife were tortured for information about Voldemort's
> whereabouts after he lost his powers, as you heard." (GoF p.602,US)
>

   But then Dumbledore throws in the caveat:
>
> "The Ministry was under great pressure to catch those who had done
> it. Unfortunately, the Longbottom's evidence was - given their
> condition - none too reliable." (ibid)
>
> This makes it seem that although the Ministry had probably caught
> the right people, they were probably just as likely to be guessing
> as to the perpetrator's motivation for the attack on the
> Longbottoms. Given the DMLE's actions during the Crouch years in
> charge, I question the conclusion they reached, and Dumbledore's
> parroting of the same.
>

 Debbie:
But Bellatrix is only too willing to confess their objective.  "We alone
were faithful!  We alone tried to find him!"  I don't think the DMLE had to
make up this part of the story.  The primary issue relates to Barty Crouch
Jr's involvement.  There's a school of thought that he was framed to
discredit his father, as revenge against his crusade against the DEs.

Mike:

>   Dumbledore told us prior to this that his informants gave him to
> believe that Voldemort was holed up in Albania. Wormtail seemed to
> go directly there after his escape at the end of PoA, and he had
> spent the last 12 years as Percy's then Ron's rat. How much of a
> secret was Voldemort's whereabouts? I know the Longbottom tortures
> took place more than ten years prior, but the WW doesn't seem to
> have come upon some revelation during the interim as to where
> Voldemort was residing.
>
> My point is, the whereabouts of Voldemort doesn't seem to be this
> great secret that the Longbottoms would need to be tortured to
> reveal. Nor does it seem reasonable that the Longbottoms would have
> some inside information as to this location.
>

Debbie:
Voldemort's whereabouts became a subject of rumor in the years after
Godric's Hollow.  Dumbledore probably doesn't mention what his sources are
telling him to a lot of people, but people at Hogwarts can probably get this
information.  (Pettigrew knew because he used to hang out with Ron, who
hangs out with Harry, who was informed by Dumbledore.)  But the Longbottom
torture took place not long after Voldemort disappeared.  As long as
sufficient numbers of suspected DEs remained at large, Dumbledore would have
kept any intelligence he had very close to the vest.

My surmise is that it was Frank Longbottom who was sent out after
Voldemort's vaporization to determine what had become of him, and that he
had discovered Vapormort hiding out in Albania or wherever.  The Lestranges
(or whoever sent them to be framed, because faithful DEs were troublesome to
those who were trying to slither out of Azkaban-type trouble) only knew that
Longbottom had been away and had returned.  The Lestranges dragged Crouch Jr
along with them because he knew the Longbottoms and would get them unforced
entry into the Longbottom home.

   Mike:
>
> Actually, IMO this seems a more likely explanation than the one
> given in canon. (BTW, Eric where can one find your "theory"? Do you
> have a message number? I think I read it once, but can't remember
> where it was.) Revenge can be highly motivating, and it makes more
> sense to me than that hooey about finding Voldemort.
>

Judge Dredd on Acid is here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/33885

Debbie
who's celebrating an anniversary of sorts tonight, having joined HPFGU
exactly five (!) years ago today


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