Sending Voldie through the Veil (Was: Where will the "great battle" be)

[Mike]

No: HPFGUIDX 162003

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Scarah <scarah at ...> wrote:
>
> Sarah:
> <snip> I'm kind of allergic to "Think of the children"
> as support or debunking of theories.
> <snipping the JKR quote>
>
> She's already killed some beloved characters, and put still more
> through some serious angst. <snip>
> I totally believe her when she says she's telling the story she 
> wanted to tell, and it is sad and scary. The books so far bear 
> this out. <snip> 

Mike:
Yay Sarah!! I'm with you all the way on this front. JKR has shown no 
inclanation to shy away from the gruesome, the difficult, or 
challenging our Hero(es) with seemingly impossible tasks. What on 
earth makes people believe that she is going to start with book 7? 
Whether you're a Horcrux!Harry believer or not (I am <g>), the idea 
that JKR wouldn't go there because it would be too difficult for 
Harry to solve is, IMO, a ludicrious reason. Any limitation based on 
difficulty for the characters or being too cruel to our heroes does 
not embrace the story (and the interview statements) that JKR has 
put forth.

> Sarah:
> 
> Harry already killed Quirrell, didn't he?  It could be argued that
> Quirrell self-bubbled by touching Harry, or that it was 
> accidental, or a side effect, but the bottom line is that Harry 
> laid hands on Quirrell and Quirell died.  If this didn't divide 
> Harry's soul, then he should have plenty of options for Voldemort.

Mike:
I don't know whether Dumbledore was being gentle with Harry, but 
didn't he present Quirrell's death as the result of Voldemort's long-
term possession and sudden withdrawal? Also, more happened after 
Dumbledore arrived that we didn't see because Harry passed out. I'm 
not sure that we can pin Quirrell's death on Harry, moreover, it 
wouldn't be considered murder, self defence at the worst (that's if 
he really was the *sole* cause of Quirrell's demise).

> 
> Carol:
> Soldiers defending their country suffer what used to be 
> euphemistically referred to as combat fatigue, including 
> nightmares decades later and other permanent psychological
> damage.

Mike:
Actually, combat fatigue was more a result of being constantly shot 
at, shelled, or what have you and from seeing your buddies get 
killed. I'm sure a few soldiers had up close encounters with the 
enemy that haunted them, but more times than not it was the results 
of combat on themselves or their shipmates/fellow soldiers/marines 
that caused the nightmares or gave them psychological damage. 

Relating this to canon, Harry has already suffered this kind of 
damage through Cedric's death (we were told about his nightmares) 
and probably from Sirius' death. After HBP I don't think Harry would 
suffer any emotional, psychological or spiritual damage if he killed 
Voldemort by his *own hand*, any more than a British/US soldier 
would have suffered if he had killed Hitler face-to-face. 

What Harry did in PoA was different. Sirius had supposedly 
*betrayed* his parents not actually killed them (despite all that 
poorly written waffling that JKR had Sirius spew forth). Not that I 
think Harry is going to AK old Voldie, JKR has made it abundantly 
clear that Harry won't be able to. (How was Harry supposedly going 
to kill Sirius in PoA?)

> Sarah:
> Exactly.  In my opinion, the only authorial irresponsibility will 
> be if Harry lives and this *isn't* shown.  He has to banish 
> Voldemort from this plane of existence.  It won't be easy.  
> Whether Harry shoots Voldemort with an M-16 or gently shoves him 
> through the veil, he's killing him.  If he skips off into the 
> sunset to marry Ginny without a care in the world afterward, that 
> is what I will have a problem with.

Mike:
I think your key word is *banish* or as the prophesy put it, 
*vanquish*. I'm not even sure that JKR isn't setting up the 
proposition that Voldemort is no longer human; therefore killing 
Voldemort doesn't constitute killing a fellow human being.

I don't see Harry killing (Note: not murdering) his mortal enemy, 
the person that has caused sooo much grief to the WW, as something 
that would cause him to lose sleep. On the contrary, I think there 
would be an overwhelming feeling of relief. As I said above, Harry 
has already suffered immensely from Voldemort. Nothing that he could 
*do* to Voldemort could be more powerfully emotional than the losses 
he has witnessed *because* of Voldemort. And those *because* of 
Voldemort things are the kind that cause the nightmares, not the 
ridding the world of an evil monster kind of things.

Mike, who is sure that JKR has some unique way of "vanquishing" 
Voldemort in mind.