Freedom for House-Elves ... (Was: Kreacher .. Plot Device...)

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 162028

---  "Jordan Abel" <random832 at ...> wrote:
> Jordan:
> > ...edited....
> 
> And if the alternative is to be forced *not* to, and 
> not allowed so much as a head scarf (as in France, 
> where evidently atheism is the state religion), who 
> wouldn't?
> 

bboyminn:

On this tangental social issue, I agree with Jordan. Agree
it is wrong to force women to wear burkhas, but it is 
equally wrong to force then NOT to wear them. As to head
scarfs, I was stunned when France and now England tried
to force a law through that would /prevent/ women from
wearing them. 

To the issue of burkhas in England, I can at least 
understand the sentiment. When a 'masked' person
walks into your shop, it's reasonable to wonder if you
are about to be robbed. In western culture, hiding
your face has a very real and very negative implication.

For the record, I personally don't think burkhas have
anything to do with religion, I think they are part of
a social structure that tends to act to suppress women
and keep them as vulnerable and helpless as possible.
So, on this point, it is a social issue, not truly a
religious one.

But the head scarf issue in France seemed totally 
unreasonable to me. The scarf is a mark of modesty, and
I don't think a little more modesty in our culture is
something to be looked down on. Especially, not when a
lot of Junior High girls go to school looking like 
'street walkers'. Overall though, that particular ruling
seemed very unreasonable to me.

For the record, and believe it or not, there is a federal
law in the USA that prevents anyone from wearing a 
'costume' or any type of clothing that conceals the face.
Really, it's true. This law was enacted specifically to 
prevent members of the KKK from hiding behind masks while
the commited crimes or engaged in civil disruption.

Of course, Congress ignored how this law would technically
affect Holloween and even Santa Claus. The law is almost 
never enforced since the KKK began wearing robes with
hoods that exposed their faces. Which is all the law
was intended to do in the first place.

> Jordan continues:
>
> To keep this vaguely on-topic, what's the alternative
> for them? We don't know that House Elves are fully 
> happy with 100% of the present situation, just that,
> by and large, they're not buying what Hermione's
> selling.
>

bboyminn:

Echoing Jordan's comment, it's time to now get back on
topic. What do the Elves want and need? Freedom... maybe,
maybe not.

In my hypothetical fan-ficcy scenerio, previously 
mentioned, were Hermione turns the tide in favor of 
the house-elves by going to the wizarding law making 
body, and making a case that keeping house-elves truly
is slavery. 

The outcome of that encounter was wizard's
legislation that set a minimum standard for keeping a
house-elf and included things like - fair compensation
(fair by Elf standards, still a good deal for wizards,
but keep in mind it is the /minimum/ standard), a
fair standard of treatment of Elves (they can't be
abused or compelled to abuse themselves), fair living
conditions (no more living in a 'nest' under the boiler),
a fair means for airing grievances against their Masters
(which means no retribution for bring a grievance 
forward), and among other things, fair and reasonable
care after a lifetime of service (retirement care and
all that).

Notice the one word that occurs over and over again -
FAIR. As things stand now, I'm convinced that Elves 
serve willingly and eagerly. They truly do love serving
and caring for humans. What they don't love is the ill
treatment of themselves, and the total disregard for 
their welfare.

As to how the real story progresses in the last book, I
don't think we will hear any more about SPEW, or if we 
do, it will be incidentaal, or just in passing. SPEW was 
Hermione's ill-conceived Empire-building Colonial
expression of what she wanted. But as we have all 
commented, Hermione never took the time to study elves
and what they wanted or needed. 

What I conceive them wanting is fair and reasonable
treatment. I speculate that if House-Elves were freed
the way slaves were freed; just a slaves, they would
soon find themselves back in the same situation they
were in before they were freed. They would be back 
doing what they truly like to do, which is serving and
caring for humans. And much like human slaves who were
freed, they would continue to be taken advantage of.

The purpose of 'freedom' is not to stop the elves from
doing the thing that is ingrained in their nature, but
to get wizards to stop taking unfair advantage of that
nature. 

Again, as I said, the Elves are fine, it is the wizards
that need to be fixed.

You heard it here first...again. ;)

Steve/bboyminn