Freedom for House-Elves (Was: Kreacher the Plot Device Elf)

[a_svirn]

No: HPFGUIDX 162093

> Carol:
> We see Dobby, Kreacher, and Winky at close range *because* they're
> exceptional, all of them in some way involved with Harrry. 

a_svirn:
How do you know that they are exceptional if they are only ones 
we've seen so far? 

> Carol:
Only in
> Dobby's case is that involvement vouluntary. (Interesting, isn't 
it,
> that Dobby worships Harry as the hero of the house-elves, but 
Winky,
> who worked for Mr. Crouch, also an enemy of the Death Eaters and
> Voldemort, worships him instead, while also caring deeply about his
> Death Eater son? the politics of the WW are of no concern to her, 
but
> she wants Barty Jr. to be able to watch Quidditch and see the sun.)

a_svirn:
What's so strange about it? She loved both Crouches. Crouch Jr.'s 
mother was also more concerned about him than about the WW politics. 
Moreover, the very fact that Crouch Sr. chose the WW politics over 
his own son was regarded by all the good guys as the most unnatural 
thing. 

> Carol:
> The house-elves at Hogwarts, in contrast, appear to be typical--
more
> than satisfied with their situation and disapproving of those who, 
in
> their view, disgrace them. 

a_svirn:
Or, they are on the contrary most atypical, because Dumbledore is an 
atypical master, and treat them with unprecedented kindness. We know 
from Dobby that in general house-elves have a really rough deal. 

"Ah, if Harry Potter only knew!" Dobby groaned, more tears dripping 
onto his ragged pillowcase. "If he knew what he means to us, to the 
lowly, the enslaved, we dregs of the magical world! Dobby remembers 
how it was when He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named was at the height of his 
powers, sir! We house-elves were treated like vermin, sir! Of 
course, Dobby is still treated like that, sir," he admitted, drying 
his face on the pillowcase. "But mostly, sir, life has improved for 
my kind since you triumphed over He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named.

But I don't suppose that Dumbledore ever treated Hogwarts elves like 
vermin, even with Voldemort at the height of his powers. That make 
hogwarts elves an exception, rather than a rule. 

> Carol:
And even Dobby is happy with Dumbledore as
> a "master" (employer), though he also volunteers to serve Harry.

a_svirn:
Did Dobby ever call Dumbledor master? I don't remember. I rather 
think he was at pains to emphasise that he was an *employee*, and 
his work at Hogwarts *employment*. 

> Carol: 
> Judging house-elves in general by these three atypical specimens is
> like judging Hogwarts students by HRH. Those three go around 
breaking
> rules and wandering the halls at midnight and figuring out ways to
> fight Voldemrot. But three out of 280 (or more) is not a
> representative sample.

a_svirn:
The only one atypical among them is Harry – the Chosen one. Ron and 
Hermione are quite typical, (Ron, especially), and every kid we've 
seen so far indulged into breaking rules and wandering halls. The 
Marauders, Snape, the Twins, Draco and Co, Ginny. The entire DA in 
fact broke school rules such as they were. Honestly, I would be 
surprised is you find *one* student who never broke Hogwarts rules. 
I suppose Percy might be a likely candidate, unless there is a rule 
that forbids a prefect to kiss another prefect in an empty 
classroom. 


> Carol:
> No one is saying that slavery is the answer to the house-elves' 
need
> to serve, only that--from what we have seen of house-elves, 
including
> the atypical three that you cited--house-elves *want* to serve 
humans.
> winky mourns for the master who fired her, Dobby does everything he
> can to help Harry while also working for Hogwarts, even cleaning up
> the hats that Hermione has knitted when the other elves refuse to 
do
> so. He also states, paradoxically, "Dobby is a free house-elf and 
can
> obey anyone he likes" (HBP Am. ed. 421). And Kreacher also wants to
> work, or at least is not averse to working for someone whose values
> resembled his old mistress's, as evidenced by his remark in HBP:
> "Kreacher would much rather be the servant of the Malfoy boy, oh 
yes"
> (422).

a_svirn:
And? What does it say about their nature? As far as I can see it 
says that they are capable of strong emotions. Also I would guess, 
although that's a pure speculation, that they don't have any other 
outlet for their emotions than their masters. I mean we don't see 
them as family-persons, do we? Where are Winky's or Dobby's 
relatives? I am pretty sure that wizards take pains not to keep 
their families apart. In fact, they probably make sure that there 
*aren't* any families. When you are in a position of a pet – as you 
put it – or livestock more probably, you don't have children; you 
*breed* instead. And then your master probably distribute the litter 
though that "relocation office". If poor Winky never saw her 
children or her parents, whom she is supposed to love?  As for "obey 
whoever I like", it only proves that he "doesn't" really want to 
obey anyone. It comes to the same thing. Kreacher holds onto his old 
loyalties – also an emotional thing and nothing to do with the 
mysterious evline nature. The only thing about their "nature" that 
we can be sure about is that they prefer to live in human houses. 
Just like garden gnomes like to live in human gardens. Unlike 
gnomes, elves are prepared to make themselves useful for humans 
(which is only fair, after all, since theose are *human* houses). 
But the very need of a human house as their habitat makes elves 
vulnerable. 

> Carol:
> Which is exactly what I've been arguing. House-elves in general 
can't
> be set free until they have some options. Kreacher can't be set 
free
> because he's dangerous. The interim solution is responsible 
ownership,
> treating the house-elves humanely and with respect. 

a_svirn:
You can't treat a person with respect *and* as a slave. Respect and 
slavery are mutually exclusive. How much respect does "wash you 
loincloth, Kreacher" convey? About as much as "I'd washed your pants 
if I were you". 

> Carol:
Harry has so far
> failed to do that with Kreacher, understandably, given Kreacher's
> history, personality, and loyalties. But he needs to at least 
attempt
> to understand Kreacher. Forbidding Dobby and Kreacher to fight is a
> start. Ordering Kreacher to keep clean--though it's an order--would
> also be to his benefit. Obedience can be, if not a virtue, at 
least to
> the advantage of the person given the order. Not all rules, laws, 
and
> orders are made to be broken. 

a_svirn:
Slavery is, though. Should be broken, must be broken. If Kreacher 
manages to do so – well, good for him.