[HPforGrownups] Re: Readers in the WW (was: JKR and "Think of the Children!")

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 162142

> Bart:
> One aspect that we have been ignoring. Reading requires leisure time.
> Between his schoolwork, Quidditch, and saving the school/world, when does
> Harry have time to read? For example,there are a number of gaps in OOTP,
> where one might assume that he's reading SOMETHING, and they are not
> necessarily his school books.

Magpie:
All I'm saying is that reading for pleasure is not something that's ever 
much been associated with Harry as a character.  We're told other ways he
spends his time, including his free time, and reading isn't a pastime we're 
told he's particularly fond of.  Why would I feel the need to imagine him
reading in the gaps any more than I might imagine him doing anything else 
not particularly associated with him?  Especially not things I do see him 
doing in his downtime?  When Harry has downtime he tends to like to spend it 
with his friends.  Sometimes they play games.  We have plenty of downtime 
scenes with Harry.

Bart:
> Which reminds me of a story (and I'm too lazy to look up the details now) 
>  > about a 19th century serial novel, where one chapter ends with a couple
> saying goodnight, and the next with them eating breakfast together. When > 
> complaints came in, his response was on the close order, "The author is
> not responsible for what the characters do in between chapters." There are 
>  > plenty of gaps in the books, where weeks or even months are not 
> mentioned > in detail, and we sometimes have no idea of what he's actually 
> doing.

Magpie:
But the author has given us a pretty good view of one Harry Potter for six 
books and that includes most of the things he likes to do.  I don't think 
it's so radical to remember reading for pleasure is not something
particularly associated with him.

Geoff:
In that sense, Harry is not unique. Living in the Muggle world as he was at 
that time, he was a child of his time.

Magpie:
I don't think anyone has suggested he was unique.  He's a boy like the many 
others you described in your post--perfectly fine thing for him to be. The 
author could of course have also chosen to make him one of the many Muggle 
children, even boys, who do love to read a lot, and did before Harry Potter 
was published.

Lana:
A reader is considered as someone who doesn't necessarily read every book in 
site.  A reader doesn't have to specifically read "books".  A reader is
considered (in his opinion) to be anyone who reads anything.  It could be a 
text book, fiction book, non fiction book, magazine, pamphlets, newspapers,
or as simple as the ads on the bullitin board.

Magpie:
Obviously, I'm not using your philosophy teacher's definition that includes 
every single child in Hogwarts since they all read textbooks for school. Nor
does it include people who read posted ads. That definition's fairly 
meaningless character-wise. I'm talking about the, imo, not radical point 
that we see a lot of what Harry Potter likes to do and he's not one of the 
common types of heroes in children's books who are specifically described as 
liking to read books of whatever kind. A book lover.   The fact that Harry
reads the paper for signs of things going on in his own life does not make 
him this kind of character. His reading of Quidditch books due to his 
interest in Quidditch, something the author has clearly made a pastime, also 
does not make him this kind of character.  An avid reader is the point.  If 
you're reaching for the times Harry read notices posted on the bulletin 
board I think that rather proves the point.

Alla:

See, I do not get how one contradicts each other. I guess it is again a 
question of degree for me. Most well-loved, surely not, but why read the 
book in the first place, even if the book is about your
favorite sport, if you can just do without it and just play your sport and 
talk to your friends about it.

Magpie:
Because I just think this is stretching the point to where it's meaningless. 
Nobody's saying Harry is allergic to books, just that he's not a character
who's been given a particular love of books and reading as opposed to a love 
of Quidditch.

Alla:
Like I like cooking for example (I do not consider myself to be a great 
cook, but I can make some things well), but I do not read cookbooks, not
because I do not like cooking, but because those books are not interesting 
to me, even though I like cooking well enough.

Magpie:
So you know what it is that you like.  You like cooking, you don't like 
reading cookbooks.  Harry likes Quidditch and in his case finds the book he
has on Quidditch interesting as well--though he doesn't devour any and all 
Quidditch books either.  Hermione's played Quidditch. Quidditch is not a
particular love of hers.

Alla:
I thought I was clear enough upthread, sorry if I was not. Let's continue 
with your hypothetical. Harry likes to read and since his home life is so 
bleak, he spends days and days in his cupboard thinking about his favorite 
characters adventures, imagining himself
in those worlds, and lo and behold, what do we know - one day a letter 
arrives, inviting Harry to go and indeed live in one of those worlds.

I mean I am honestly surprised, that it is hard to see that in this scenario 
WW can be easily seen as the product of Harry's imagination.

Magpie;
It's not.  But the fact that it could be seen that way (especially by Harry 
himself) does not change that the WW is written as objectively real, even 
before Harry is born, with even the Dursleys believing it.  The reality of 
the WW is never in question.  So I don't see why that's such a danger it's 
got to be the sole reason Harry isn't this boy.  I'm not convinced the 
author couldn't have given her protagonist that personality or even ever 
wanted to.  That she didn't is clear--and any one of the reasons mentioned 
could have played a part.  I can see the same advantages you do to him not 
being that kind of kid.  Whatever the reason, Harry's not that boy. We don't 
know what's in the author's head, just what's on the page.

The question of why Harry is the way he is in a Meta sense is different from 
whatever he is.  Like, it's quite possible Harry's good at Quidditch because 
JKR thought being a sports hero would appeal to kids, but within canon all 
that matters is that Harry is indeed good at Quidditch.

Alla:

Wow, wow, wait. When you phrase it that way...

That is precisely what I am arguing against - that Harry never had read a 
book in his entire life besides text books or that he is allergic to books.

That is how I understood Betsy's original point. As long as we agree that he 
indeed reads books sometimes, I have no argument that he
loves Qudditch much more than he loves books.

Magpie:
That's the way I took Betsy's point, that there's nothing particularly 
strange about a boy in canon being more interested in other things than
books.

Alla:
In fact as I also said upthread, I am not even insisting on calling him a
book lover, but I certainly insist on calling him a reader.

Magpie:
Then I should stop using that word.  I was using the word reader in this 
case to mean booklover (a way I've heard it used especially with reference 
to kids), not the way it's being defined by others as someone who is able to 
read.

-m