Readers in the WW (was: JKR and "Think of the Children!")

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 162162

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > Harry reads his school books, yes.  But no canon has been        
> > presented to show that Harry reads for the pleasure of reading.  
> > And he certainly doesn't read any fiction (and fiction does not   
> > mean just fantasy, to be clear).  Ergo, he is not a reader; he is 
> > not a book lover. (Which, as Magpie pointed out, does not suggest 
> > that Harry is illiterate.)  And that's *fine*.  So yes, the       
> > scramble still amuses.

> >>Potioncat:
> Guilty as charged (of scrambling) Though I'm not sure why. So, 
> instead I can say, the more noble character is Snape, who appears   
> to particularly value books.

Betsy Hp:
Heck, I just caught it on my hundredth, thousandth, billionth flip 
through PS/SS, so don't feel bad. <g>  I think it makes sense for a 
book-lover to project the same view onto the protaganist.  And I 
think it's also a bit unusual to have a hero so not into books (at 
least from my experience).  Though of course I totally agree about 
Snape's nobility. <eg> 

> >>Potioncat:
> The point was funny, that the narrator makes the connection of     
> Dudley not reading but leaves it to us to realise that Harry       
> doesn't read either. (I have that right, don't I?) 

Betsy Hp:
Exactly right. Though to be perfectly clear I not saying Harry (nor 
do I think JKR is suggesting) that Harry is illiterate.  He's just 
not a book-lover, or what my family always classified as a "reader".

[As in, "What on earth should I get cousin so and so for his 
birthday?"  "Well, he's a reader, so just pick up a book of some 
sort.  Something an eleven-year old might enjoy."

*NOT* as in

"Well, he's a reader so..." "Yes, thank you, at eleven years of age 
I'd expect him to be able to read, but you've failed to narrow it 
down for me."]

> >>Potioncat:
> It's another one of the contradictions we get in this series.  We   
> can make fun of Marge and Vernon's weight, but we don't like it     
> when Draco makes fun of Molly. We look down on Crabbe's and Goyles 
> gluttony, yet we smile at Ron's. It's OK for Sprout to give Harry 
> points, just because, but it isn't ok for Snape to favor Draco.

Betsy Hp:
Or, it's okay to physically hurt Draco, but not physically hurt 
Harry.  It's okay to mark Marietta's face, but not Harry's hand.  
It's okay for Hermione to cheat, but not Harry (which was an 
interesting one, IMO).  Or it's okay for Hermione to blackmail, but 
not the twins as another more grayish example.

> >>Potioncat:
> I'm not sure if JKR is setting us up, or if she's revealing        
> something she doesn't intend to.

Betsy Hp:
That's the million dollar question, isn't it?  For me it's big part 
of what will decide me on how to classify this series.  Come on book 
7!! <g>

> >>Alla:
> <snip>
> It does not matter whether Harry will be reading fantasy or **any** 
> other fiction in order for Neri's argument to work in my opinion.   
> All that is needed is for Harry to have overactive imagination ,    
> influenced by **any** type of fiction, by any book that describes   
> fictional events. As long as we know that, well, we can never be   
> sure whether Harry just dreampt up WW just as he would be dreaming 
> about adventures of his favorite characters from the books, any    
> books?
> And if JKR wants to stress that WW is real, I understand what Neri
> is saying as plausible argument.

Betsy Hp:
It's a plausible *argument*, but it's not a plausible *rule*, IMO.  
JKR may well have created active/doer!Harry rather than book-
lover/imaginative!Harry for that reason.  What I objected to was the 
suggestion that this is a rule all "realistic" fantasies have to 
follow.

Which means that I don't think JKR created Harry the way she did in 
order to shoe-horn him into some "required fantasy hero" role.  She 
created him the way she did because that's how she sees Harry.

> >>Alla:
> <snip>
> ...what is reading for pleasure? Why Harry reading Qudditch book is 
> not reading for pleasure?
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Because it's one book.  If Harry were a book-lover, if a main source 
of pleasure for him was reading, he (like Hermione) would be found 
reading more often.  Instead he fixes broken alarm clocks, or plays 
chess with Ron, or stares at the ceiling, or walks aimlessly around 
the neighborhood.

> >>Alla:
> I mean, we do not see Hermione reading fiction either, does it mean
> she is not reading for pleasure?
> In my book she certainly does , because for her "Hogwarts a history"
> is pleasure reading and for Harry Quidditch related books are
> pleasure reading IMO.

Betsy Hp:
Oh, Hermione is certainly what I'd call a "reader" (by which I mean a 
book-lover).  Sure, she prefers non-fiction to fiction (like my 
father-in-law actually - a huge reader or book-lover), but she does 
enjoy reading as an entertainment.

Harry, on the other hand, will enjoy a book about his interests now 
and again.  But if you were going to buy him a gift, would you buy 
him a book or a quidditch kit?  When he's in Diagon Alley do you 
think he'd lose himself in the bookstore, or the quidditch shop (or 
the joke shop, for that matter)?

> >>Alla:
> I mean, really I am not saying that Harry reads **nearly** as much
> as Hermione, but neither would I agree that he does not like the
> books **at all**. 
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Of course not.  I've never suggested that.  But give him a choice 
between a shelf full of books or something to tinker with, and Harry 
will choose to tinker from what we've seen (fix the broken alarm 
clock rather than pull a book off the shelf).  It's part of what 
makes Harry, Harry.

> >>Alla:
> Just thought of example from RL. I have a friend, also a lawyer,
> whose reading for pleasure as far as I am aware of constitutes one
> book a month for her bookclub, that is it.
> <snip>
> Would you say that my friend is a reader or not?
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Assuming your friend reads at a good clip (IOWs, she's not taking the 
entire month to read that one book) than no, I wouldn't call her a 
reader.  If I were gift shopping for her and asking about for advice 
I don't think I'd be told, "Oh she loves books, you can't go wrong 
with a book."  (Of course, not knowing your friend, it could be she's 
a "reader" or book-lover but just really busy and so can only spare 
the time to do a book a month as a form of "me time".  In which case, 
she'd *love* getting a book for a gift and look forward to the time 
to actually read it.  And then I *would* classify her as a "reader" 
or book-lover.)

Which is like one of my sisters, or my husband.  Both of whom will 
get pulled into a book from time to time, or go through spells where 
they'll read for a bit.  But while gift shopping I wouldn't classify 
them as "readers".  A book wouldn't be a guaranteed hit.  (Not to say 
a specific book wouldn't work.  But I doubt I'd start in a bookstore.)

Whereas, me?  I'm a "reader".  Even if you're not sure *what* I'd 
like to read specifically you're not going to go wrong in giving me a 
gift card to a bookstore.  My sister would prefer an outdoor shop, my 
husband a tool shop.

Bringing it back to Harry... we've seen him killing time.  We've seen 
him go for a little de-tox time or relaxation time.  Rarely (if ever, 
actually) does he reach for a book.  Instead he goes flying.  Because 
that's Harry. 

Betsy Hp