The Statute of Secrecy

[Ken Hutchinson]

No: HPFGUIDX 158947

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:
>
> ---  "Ken Hutchinson" <klhutch@> wrote:
> >
> > > Carol wrote:
> > >
> > > ... regarding the interaction between Dumbledore and
> > > Mrs. Cole. Dumbledore had to hide the fact that the 
> > > school he was recruiting Tom Riddle for was a school
> > > of magic from Mrs. Cole because of the Statute of 
> > > Secrecy, so in order to send Tom to the school ..., 
> > > Dumbledore had no choice but to trick her into 
> > > thinking that the blank paper she was looking at was
> > > an official document. ...
> > > 
> > 
> > Ken:
> > 
> > ...I think that Dumbledore reveals himself as a conniver
> > in this scene. He was not *forced* to do anything, he 
> > *chose* to do what he did. The things he did were small
> > ethical infractions and they have their Muggle 
> > equivalents. .... A wizard or Muggle who wanted to act
> > properly would have gotten an official document 
> > authorizing Tom's attendance at a boarding school and 
> > would have realized that Mrs. Cole could have been 
> > charmed into revealing the background information
> > necessary understand young Tom. ... This wasn't 
> > Dumbledore's finest moment. 
> 
> bboyminn:
> 
> Exactly what is Dumbledore's great ethical crime here? He
> didn't use magic to compel Mrs. Cole to act. He simply
> used magic to side-step awkward questions about the exact
> nature of the school. Awkward questions that he must
> avoid if he doesn't want to seem like some kind of 
> crackpot.
> 
> As to your suggestion that he should go to the muggle 
> government and get an offical document stating that Tom
> must attend Hogwarts, that would certainly be unethical.
> It is up to Mrs. Cole, as Tom's guardian, to determine 
> whether Tom will go to any particular school, not the 
> government. Picture the police arriving at your door one 
> day with a document telling you which school your kids 
> will go to; not a pretty sight.
> 

Ken:

Great ethical crime? I don't believe I said it was a great 
ethical crime just that it was unethical and a violation of
an older Dumbledore's statement of his personal principles.
My point is that Mrs. Cole has a problem with Tom and 
she knows it. She would have been open to a legitmate
suggestion on how to deal with it. No magically forged
documents or gin were needed. Just perhaps a little more
of Dumbledore's time and famous charm. And I don't 
see how you can consider forgery to be anything less 
than unethical. I am sure the British government would
consider it to be a crime.

The MoM has relations with the Muggle PM and it would 
have been a simple matter to discuss the need for magically
gifted children to have a proper education with him. A 
Hogwarts education seems to be offered at no cost to 
students like Tom, a Hogwarts education *should* enable
young wizards and witches to fit into Muggle society, it
is a win-win-win situation for the WW, the Muggle world,
and people like Mrs Cole. It is a good thing that Dumbledore
and Hogwarts are offering to do here, there was no need 
to do it in a shabby fashion.

I used the word authorizing, not compeling or ordering.
Maybe it was a bad choice but I only meant that DD should
have been provided with an offical, legal document that 
identified Hogwarts as a legitimate school that was capable
of dealing with children like Tom and which was offering him
an education on financial terms that Mrs. Cole would hardly
refuse.

Mrs. Cole is not Tom's mother, she runs an orphange with
some kind of sanction from the state. The state has a little
more say in the disposition of her charges than it would 
when children live with parents or guardians who are blood
relatives. In any event parents in the US have indeed been
told by local governments, courts, and school districts which
schools their children must attend. This is not even unusual
although parents do often complain bitterly about it and opt
for private schooling if they can afford it.

> Steve:

> Note again, that Dumbledore did not compel or alter Mrs.
> Cole's decision. He did not magically force her to give
> a specific decision on Tom. She reached that conclusion 
> on her own, as it should be.  All he did was sidestep
> questions about certain unusual aspects of Hogwarts. He
> diverted the converstation into more productive and more
> relevant territory.
> 
> Also, note that it is MRS. COLE who offers Dumbledore a
> drink of Gin, not the other way around. Nor did 
> Dumbledore force Mrs. Cole to drink; she drank quite 
> freely and quite liberally of her own choice.
> 
> If Dumbledore had used magic to coerce or force or trick
> some decision or action from Mrs. Cole, I would agree 
> with you, but all he did was avoid some awkward questions.
> 

Ken:

The issue isn't the use of magic, the issue is that Dumbledore
in this scene is doing the same things that any conniving 
Muggle schemer would do. He uses a forged document and
makes sure that plenty of gin is on hand to help seal the 
deal. He knew what Mrs. Cole's weakness was and he explited
it. He did not have to resort to either tactic, he chose to 
to that. In short he chose what was easy over what was right.

Remember that I brought this up because I think it is a scene
where Dumbldore truly does show that he is human after all.
I don't mean to discredit him. I believe that he does not have 
to be perfect to be the epitome of goodness. A perfect 
Dumbledore would be boring, unbelievable, and would have
solved all the WW's problems by now. I do not accept that 
his scenes with the Dursley's tell us anything significant about
his character mostly because they are so one dimensional that I 
regard them as strawmen or cartoons instead of as real characters. 
If you try to see them as "real" you have to deal with their extreme
obstinance and prejudice. You cannot deal with a badger the 
same way you can deal with a housecat. The Dursley's are 
angry badgers and I believe that the other characters in this
story are simply dealing with them in the best fashion that they
can devise under the circumstances. I don't believe that normal
ethical judgments of their behaviour can or should be made on
the basis of their dealings with the Dursleys. Mrs. Cole is a housecat
though and there was no need to treat her like a badger.

Ken